From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU Emacs raison d'etre Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 15:16:54 +0300 Message-ID: <70be9adf-296b-2b7f-3ce9-5d4e20d9b00b@yandex.ru> References: <5230692c-c665-a330-7a12-e59fa25d97dd@gmail.com> <83sgfybn22.fsf@gnu.org> <1701f0b1-a481-bb45-08b8-99da4a6139fc@gmx.at> <736c1336-58ea-dd1f-18ba-94f902e37f61@yandex.ru> <206d0959-8a6f-ebf9-0230-1cdb41a0c849@gmx.at> <79aa434b-6513-14ff-eb45-ece4ba30590b@yandex.ru> <83eere7jil.fsf@gnu.org> <834ksa7fgy.fsf@gnu.org> <0db86fd4-3add-7863-9102-849a9d270cc3@gmx.at> <83sgfu5vhs.fsf@gnu.org> <8fc4ea19-35ff-5c34-4a25-e1b47ee79e77@yandex.ru> <83pnay5udk.fsf@gnu.org> <83mu625tav.fsf@gnu.org> <0015ade0-d4f9-6ccc-692c-222871251c51@yandex.ru> <83imgq58dm.fsf@gnu.org> <57928502-aec4-4042-5ac8-d38a960c920b@yandex.ru> <83zha0ig39.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="56306"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org, rms@gnu.org, andreas.roehler@online.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, kfogel@red-bean.com, rudalics@gmx.at, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, sorganov@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, arthur.miller@live.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, stefankangas@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri May 22 14:17:45 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jc6cS-000EWZ-Sk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 22 May 2020 14:17:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49096 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jc6cR-0001FM-UY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 22 May 2020 08:17:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40454) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jc6bl-0008B3-L4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 May 2020 08:17:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42b]:35939) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jc6bk-0000iQ-5a; Fri, 22 May 2020 08:17:01 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id k13so9991628wrx.3; Fri, 22 May 2020 05:16:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IyjKScXUv85yIi+HAReN/7lFSP2pFJ8qCK+AJcKRhBA=; b=hHsFvrLm4+ivRuGRMHD/nXGw++yPa63ZuR82N4n8qJmyBqddm5RfGz3R8lFdto6kL+ VF0WZ60NbetKFFA8fQkvv8e9kToQghf+NfQxkpiSwqdQH0oRnZ854WDWQ4vfqnbri4ST gF3mCv2DH44Q0DPy8tQeP9ClJfL6Zhx4mD5kgUGXZmTHW/j0nNvoy1Gcx7LhcuxF27bz LZj/EnzYGSCQBBL4DzGn/h8s/j+cnT+kRE9thRs4K2KOKDAe6FaMQapFS8+nChBIptBY RCxMc84EaYq8u3yKpBzHTPC7z7zbcCCXviZd1BH9ystmxgOrkp+wOA9KCrf57YbrljJ1 uFrg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=IyjKScXUv85yIi+HAReN/7lFSP2pFJ8qCK+AJcKRhBA=; b=uXP1FB/RENqkZ0ff94SkUIQRKXoXRjlA7YyTsEevgePp6gllClrTphkR0/CrBj0hs/ IzALzwUVa2ZK7YUxaqsEY8huMOAgeTS4Nv20V6TlZ9ICVBvcA70Rvf7MDCP5nbvyxQNW IQnY/2DrI7Z2VJE3SBE3ncfeBITRVyi10mE/y1eE2GScABAJZpiF/8zJyFPHX0S9DMds WdujZi0dhuRWR8rsFc7sFhvjtx+mNl/Jhwo1vDGJeqSVM3xzMgp0gBpdSSCC6VHTeix/ oRfSLc03OWSfXj2xur2EyXlR4cGnk0I4K9hdm5kt7zhjtBqhm2+FmP3l3fccNacicYV3 yV1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533DGQEUfhT7DsmR7zuUWdZNXZXGwpAGyta4N2a89WRM6VXcCchi O1+g7orEIYXok7jujlIu4Gg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwtF1oxr9xg4n1VxIlbTQeGqduZG/I8LOozEO218lcpJwQeQqQmboMllnWn180ejV1EEgo4dA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:43cf:: with SMTP id v15mr3296028wrr.350.1590149818050; Fri, 22 May 2020 05:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id a12sm9152766wro.68.2020.05.22.05.16.55 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 22 May 2020 05:16:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83zha0ig39.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42b; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42b.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251213 Archived-At: On 22.05.2020 10:28, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>>> I'm not saying the current behavior is necessarily "broken", but perhaps >>>> we could enhance it further. >>> The intent was to affect messages that are a "surprise" for the user. >>> eval-last-sexp is invoked by the user, so no surprise here. >> But not all 'message' calls are a "surprise". One might even say that >> the vast majority of them aren't. And yet, they obey set-message-function. > We provided a possibility to customize this functionality out of > principle, without investing too much research into the various ways > this could be used in situations very different from those for which > the code was written, which is display of a message when the > minibuffer is active. It is possible that using this as a > customization tool in other situations could also make sense, and that > other sense would then suggest us that the feature should be extended > to other means of displaying messages in the echo area. > > However, it sounds too early to consider those additional > possibilities. I'd like first to collect real-life use experience > with this feature in Emacs 27. Fair enough.