From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jim Porter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making `x-underline-at-descent-line' a face attribute Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 12:49:59 -0800 Message-ID: <6e2d1fc6-a727-f98a-28e8-46b5d2225d13@gmail.com> References: <87lezt5v7h.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <87lezt5v7h.fsf@yahoo.com> <83sfu18dao.fsf@gnu.org> <83mtk87hmd.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21250"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 06 21:52:02 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n5Zju-0005Il-17 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 21:52:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36020 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5Zjs-0007vc-20 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 15:52:00 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34220) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5Zi1-0006sK-N3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 15:50:05 -0500 Original-Received: from [2607:f8b0:4864:20::534] (port=47037 helo=mail-pg1-x534.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5Zi0-0000hj-5r; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 15:50:05 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x534.google.com with SMTP id i8so3600771pgt.13; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 12:50:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TGfgxfjcwdNF/SNg0pA6+nTXrE2Pnles9syho+BEl98=; b=mCS9B98AMeHY20SH2OV33kJxlHJqG2RrykaNfAefvY+zQ2ZZ4dFXI0esrXE0J7hZzp rLL//cpsfpyAjlaUDqqr6iTfFxQjWr263yE8xXYFQe3Z5Q4xjGg2fpV+HSEkUHIBWom9 kV9nm5Ijvu5w1Kx+4zhCIEV1rsm9DLkExbD+Q7zWhXTdalA0V2sx9S1F99WsQz5dqHYa YA2Ne+W3l6jH+pjRSHgjzv9HOyqXX71JjOnKte7gRMAdsOCQHeWYru2dRAHyRD/wE0SB MrS3wbK8IK3RvU+ZfQFfosCNuScO08gE0auyPQArHHMF3E4rsEwv236D+wK9NeWB/jUK kO4Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TGfgxfjcwdNF/SNg0pA6+nTXrE2Pnles9syho+BEl98=; b=gfZ8HG3taBH7f4eBxZT8FQc+nWH2jeA88Lpzcs64+JEPAtyEd2gvtdmjSiE6WeoPui ZqVeo8/sSW8AJ+d44tw1TuWjXKzKIXoKlPMomXMGjypS03aKThfrXZMVxyQUYV9ieHLR Q94hg7j/dojvlc6Q1H7qHnuOkV3HJO2P7NQLjbjupRnyDM8Z7P2FStWGU45iM8Y89gwd Nci8egmBooMsTlaMikn9HFUly3SvX2oYrsIPxjwYgP10I+V3lOlZ7Q89kkCIpC0ejxcb rX5ywOJys+hSggL1JglA9pJEQauqItvnYFlRBSf9Mwu+M335QLVHnCsXwDEUBww8UVyQ 40OQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533KXvSUbblW/zQdwXwUo2wtQmh7mBuH7f8nC5ylFxjh+jc+7LBP lWnmq7AF6Wh41OvxnzOzU8AVC6vrb7k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwJ4Jlzrv/9gLwlaLsLqrY39hb2KfHt4Ic60EEuVKIGijJWHWBeCH9gqEerJlpWo8liX1jirg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:b558:: with SMTP id u24mr8398247pgo.530.1641502201608; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 12:50:01 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com. [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id ls6sm7659538pjb.33.2022.01.06.12.50.00 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Jan 2022 12:50:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83mtk87hmd.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2607:f8b0:4864:20::534 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::534; envelope-from=jporterbugs@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x534.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -2 X-Spam_score: -0.3 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:284347 Archived-At: On 1/6/2022 12:07 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> From: Jim Porter >> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 09:47:33 -0800 >> >> Looking at the docs for :box, I only see the ability to set separate >> vertical and horizontal widths (but not to set all 4 sides to different >> values). The latter would be useful in some cases, for example to make >> the tab-bar tabs look more like tabs. > > That is not the right way of displaying tabs with 3D appearance. We > should provide professionally looking tabs, not some emulation of them > with a box of 4 different width -- that would look extremely > unprofessional and unclean. > > In general, I think the visual appearance of tab-bar and tab-line > buttons needs a lot of love and care; what we have now simply looks > badly, IMNSHO. We've basically copied the code that displays the tool > bar, but without the attention that was at the time given to the > visual appearance of the (native tool-bar buttons. The result is that > the tool-bar buttons look much prettier than the tab bar and the tab > lines. Compare our tab bar with that of any of the Web browsers out > there, and you will see what I mean. there's no good reason why our > tabs couldn't look as pretty as those of the browser, the only problem > is that it involves coding in C, not Lisp. I still hope someone with > experience in graphics programming will do that. It's interesting that you mention web browsers in particular, since that's part of what got me to think about using :box to create nicer-looking tab-bar tabs. In Firefox, the visuals are determined by CSS, and Emacs's :box attribute bears a striking resemblance to CSS's `border'. Having done some similar UI design in CSS, I'd likely implement the visuals for tabs partly using CSS `border' in the same way that I described using :box. (Of course, I'd use many other CSS features to adjust the appearance until it looks good.) That said, CSS has somewhat of a reputation for being tricky to get right and occasionally producing unexpected results (just websearch for "CSS is awesome"). Maybe it's not a good idea to make Emacs face attributes work too much like CSS. >> One benefit of making :color a cons cell is that it would be possible to >> create an effect like `:style released-button', but allow the programmer >> to control the exact colors to use. > > Once again, the released-button style should be produced by actually > drawing a released button, like we do on the tool bar and the mode > line. Playing color games with the :box attribute will produce an > unclean emulation of that, and I therefore object to doing that. We > shouldn't implement such unclean visuals. I don't have a strong opinion on this, so I don't mind if :color stays the way it is. It's just the first example I could come up with that someone might use the feature for.