* bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries (was: bug#10215: 24.0.92; Can't contact nnimap (gnutls-cli not found)) [not found] ` <87ipjzs512.fsf@gnus.org> @ 2012-01-26 15:44 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-26 15:15 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-01-29 16:00 ` Christoph Scholtes 0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2012-01-26 15:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 10612; +Cc: help-emacs-windows, emacs-devel On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 01:04:25 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: LI> Uwe Siart <uwe.siart@tum.de> writes: >> Thanks a lot for pointing me to that and sorry for my stupidness. I >> wasn't aware that additional software is necessary because it hasn't >> been necessary for Emacs 23.3 (precompiled for Windows). More even I >> wasn't aware that GnuTLS is available for Windows. LI> Hopefully Emacs 24 will be distributed (for Windows) with the GnuTLS LI> libraries included, so that this will just work out of the box. LI> Otherwise I think there will be many similar bug reports. :-) Christoph has been doing that, I think, so we can rely on his binaries. Christoph, can you add a GnuTLS build step to your Emacs build for Windows, so the latest GnuTLS version can be used on that platform? We had a long conversation about this and at least for now it seems to be the best approach (and we agreed it would not be a task for the core Emacs developers). If you prefer, I can set up a BuildBot to produce the GnuTLS DLLs for you. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries (was: bug#10215: 24.0.92; Can't contact nnimap (gnutls-cli not found)) 2012-01-26 15:44 ` bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries (was: bug#10215: 24.0.92; Can't contact nnimap (gnutls-cli not found)) Ted Zlatanov @ 2012-01-26 15:15 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-01-26 19:32 ` bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries Ted Zlatanov ` (2 more replies) 2012-01-29 16:00 ` Christoph Scholtes 1 sibling, 3 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2012-01-26 15:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 10612; +Cc: help-emacs-windows, emacs-devel 2012/1/26 Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>: > Christoph has been doing that, I think, so we can rely on his binaries. > > Christoph, can you add a GnuTLS build step to your Emacs build for > Windows, so the latest GnuTLS version can be used on that platform? We > had a long conversation about this and at least for now it seems to be > the best approach (and we agreed it would not be a task for the core > Emacs developers). If you prefer, I can set up a BuildBot to produce > the GnuTLS DLLs for you. Christoph's binaries are built against gnutls-3.0.9, but they do not include the GnuTLS DLLs. Note (again) that the issue is not who builds the GnuTLS DLLs, but whether they should be included with official (or semi-official, like the snapshots) releases. Juanma ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-26 15:15 ` Juanma Barranquero @ 2012-01-26 19:32 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-26 19:36 ` [h-e-w] " Eli Zaretskii 2012-03-17 15:41 ` Uday S Reddy 2014-12-08 20:05 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2012-01-26 19:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-emacs-windows; +Cc: emacs-devel On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:15:24 +0100 Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> wrote: JB> 2012/1/26 Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>: >> Christoph has been doing that, I think, so we can rely on his binaries. >> >> Christoph, can you add a GnuTLS build step to your Emacs build for >> Windows, so the latest GnuTLS version can be used on that platform? We >> had a long conversation about this and at least for now it seems to be >> the best approach (and we agreed it would not be a task for the core >> Emacs developers). If you prefer, I can set up a BuildBot to produce >> the GnuTLS DLLs for you. JB> Christoph's binaries are built against gnutls-3.0.9, but they do not JB> include the GnuTLS DLLs. Right, and GnuTLS 3.0.9 is not the latest. I meant he should be building against the latest GnuTLS, not include it. JB> Note (again) that the issue is not who builds the GnuTLS DLLs, but JB> whether they should be included with official (or semi-official, like JB> the snapshots) releases. I was gonna bring that up next :) What does "semi-official" mean? Can I work with Christoph to include the GnuTLS DLLs or not? If not, can we add a notice to his binaries announcements to tell users where to find prebuilt GnuTLS DLLs? Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [h-e-w] bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-26 19:32 ` bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries Ted Zlatanov @ 2012-01-26 19:36 ` Eli Zaretskii 2012-01-26 21:07 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2012-01-26 19:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-emacs-windows; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> > Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:32:12 -0600 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > JB> Christoph's binaries are built against gnutls-3.0.9, but they do not > JB> include the GnuTLS DLLs. > > Right, and GnuTLS 3.0.9 is not the latest. I meant he should be > building against the latest GnuTLS, not include it. You are being unreasonable. 3.0.9 was released just a month ago. A new GnuTLS release happens every 2 weeks, how can you expect each one of them be ported to Windows at that pace? Do you think it's just the "./configure && make" dance we are used to on GNU/Linux? It took me a full week of uphill battle to do that with 3.0.9, what with all the prerequisite packages I needed to port first. The previous port before that was of v2.10, from a year and a half ago. How come it suddenly is so urgent to have the latest and the greatest? In any case, feel free to join the battle and help out, instead of coming up with such unreasonable requirements. > I was gonna bring that up next :) What does "semi-official" mean? Can > I work with Christoph to include the GnuTLS DLLs or not? If not, can we > add a notice to his binaries announcements to tell users where to find > prebuilt GnuTLS DLLs? You (or anyone else) can find the prebuilt Windows binaries of GnuTLS 3.0.9 here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ezwinports/files/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [h-e-w] bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-26 19:36 ` [h-e-w] " Eli Zaretskii @ 2012-01-26 21:07 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-26 21:39 ` Eli Zaretskii 2012-01-26 22:53 ` Juanma Barranquero 0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2012-01-26 21:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel; +Cc: help-emacs-windows On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:36:11 +0200 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote: >> From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> >> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:32:12 -0600 >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> JB> Christoph's binaries are built against gnutls-3.0.9, but they do not JB> include the GnuTLS DLLs. >> >> Right, and GnuTLS 3.0.9 is not the latest. I meant he should be >> building against the latest GnuTLS, not include it. EZ> You are being unreasonable. 3.0.9 was released just a month ago. A EZ> new GnuTLS release happens every 2 weeks, how can you expect each one EZ> of them be ported to Windows at that pace? Do you think it's just the EZ> "./configure && make" dance we are used to on GNU/Linux? It took me a EZ> full week of uphill battle to do that with 3.0.9, what with all the EZ> prerequisite packages I needed to port first. The previous port EZ> before that was of v2.10, from a year and a half ago. How come it EZ> suddenly is so urgent to have the latest and the greatest? EZ> In any case, feel free to join the battle and help out, instead of EZ> coming up with such unreasonable requirements. My point was not that 3.1.2 is needed right now, but that Christoph should be building against the latest GnuTLS in general. Sorry if that was not clear. I did offer to set up a BuildBot to produce those DLLs, so I don't think I was unreasonable. If the BuildBot can compile them automatically, it should be easy to use the latest. If not... I'll work with you and the GnuTLS developers to make it so. >> I was gonna bring that up next :) What does "semi-official" mean? Can >> I work with Christoph to include the GnuTLS DLLs or not? If not, can we >> add a notice to his binaries announcements to tell users where to find >> prebuilt GnuTLS DLLs? EZ> You (or anyone else) can find the prebuilt Windows binaries of EZ> GnuTLS 3.0.9 here: EZ> http://sourceforge.net/projects/ezwinports/files/ That's not what I asked, though I truly appreciate the work you've done. I mean if I, the user, see that announcement, it would be nice if it told me where to find the GnuTLS DLLs, and even nicer if they came with the binary. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [h-e-w] bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-26 21:07 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2012-01-26 21:39 ` Eli Zaretskii 2012-01-27 15:59 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-26 22:53 ` Juanma Barranquero 1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2012-01-26 21:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel > From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> > Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:07:05 -0600 > Cc: help-emacs-windows@gnu.org > > My point was not that 3.1.2 is needed right now, but that Christoph > should be building against the latest GnuTLS in general. The latest GnuTLS that's available to Christoph is 3.0.9. You cannot possibly expect him to build against the latest GnuTLS that was not yet been built on Windows. So I'm not sure what exactly do you mean. > I did offer to set up a BuildBot to produce those DLLs How can anyone trust a build done by a bot for a port to a platform that is hardly if at all supported by the mainstream developers? And a build of critical software such as GnuTLS at that? What if it fails one of the tests in the test suite? > EZ> You (or anyone else) can find the prebuilt Windows binaries of > EZ> GnuTLS 3.0.9 here: > > EZ> http://sourceforge.net/projects/ezwinports/files/ > > That's not what I asked, though I truly appreciate the work you've > done. I mean if I, the user, see that announcement, it would be > nice if it told me where to find the GnuTLS DLLs, and even nicer if they > came with the binary. The URLs for optional DLLs are in the file README.W32 that is part of the binary distribution. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [h-e-w] bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-26 21:39 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2012-01-27 15:59 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-27 15:30 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-01-27 15:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2012-01-27 15:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 23:39:36 +0200 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote: >> I did offer to set up a BuildBot to produce those DLLs EZ> How can anyone trust a build done by a bot for a port to a platform EZ> that is hardly if at all supported by the mainstream developers? And EZ> a build of critical software such as GnuTLS at that? What if it fails EZ> one of the tests in the test suite? Someone has to do the work. I offered to do it, setting up a BuildBot so I don't have to do it manually every time. I will obviously make it run the tests and if it fails, it will not deliver the DLLs. Do you have a better proposal (e.g. you want to be in charge of the builds or you know volunteers who want to do it)? I'm certainly not looking for more work for myself, but it seems no one else wants to automate this. The fact that the GnuTLS developers don't support W32 well is partly due to the lack of binary builds for that platform. I think things will improve as up-to-date DLLs become available. EZ> You (or anyone else) can find the prebuilt Windows binaries of EZ> GnuTLS 3.0.9 here: >> EZ> http://sourceforge.net/projects/ezwinports/files/ >> >> That's not what I asked, though I truly appreciate the work you've >> done. I mean if I, the user, see that announcement, it would be >> nice if it told me where to find the GnuTLS DLLs, and even nicer if they >> came with the binary. EZ> The URLs for optional DLLs are in the file README.W32 that is part of EZ> the binary distribution. I'm asking *Christoph* if he could add that URL to the announcement for the W32 binaries. I think it would be a courtesy to the users. I know where to find the URL, but many users won't. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [h-e-w] bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-27 15:59 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2012-01-27 15:30 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-01-30 12:59 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-27 15:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2012-01-27 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel 2012/1/27 Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>: > Someone has to do the work. I offered to do it, setting up a BuildBot > so I don't have to do it manually every time. I will obviously make it > run the tests and if it fails, it will not deliver the DLLs. Do you > have a better proposal (e.g. you want to be in charge of the builds or > you know volunteers who want to do it)? I'm certainly not looking for > more work for myself, but it seems no one else wants to automate this. "Someone has to do the work" and "be[ing] in charge of the builds" sort of implies that there's that weird *obligation* to provide the binaries. If there *is* in fact any obligation, it is certainly unrelated to Emacs. You seem to think that those who oppose distributing the binaries do so because of the burden of building them. At least in my case, the opposition is philosophical/political, and utterly unrelated with who wil bear the work of producing binaries. > The fact that the GnuTLS developers don't support W32 well is partly due > to the lack of binary builds for that platform. I think things will > improve as up-to-date DLLs become available. If you can set a bot to build the DLLs, the GnuTLS project surely could, too. And it would be *their* binaries. You can't get more official than that. Juanma ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [h-e-w] bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-27 15:30 ` Juanma Barranquero @ 2012-01-30 12:59 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2012-01-30 12:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:30:50 +0100 Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> wrote: JB> If you can set a bot to build the DLLs, the GnuTLS project surely JB> could, too. And it would be *their* binaries. You can't get more JB> official than that. Yes, I made a mistake having this discussion on emacs-devel. Sorry about the noise. I'll move it to the GnuTLS dev list. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [h-e-w] bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-27 15:59 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-27 15:30 ` Juanma Barranquero @ 2012-01-27 15:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2012-01-27 15:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel > From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:59:53 -0600 > > On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 23:39:36 +0200 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote: > > EZ> How can anyone trust a build done by a bot for a port to a platform > EZ> that is hardly if at all supported by the mainstream developers? And > EZ> a build of critical software such as GnuTLS at that? What if it fails > EZ> one of the tests in the test suite? > > Someone has to do the work. I offered to do it, setting up a BuildBot > so I don't have to do it manually every time. The build itself is not where most of the efforts need to be invested. It's the careful examination of any compiler and linker warnings and test suite results that takes most of the time. That, and the need to refresh the packages that are prerequisites (at least 4 are required), each one of which has its own share of quirks and problems. > I will obviously make it run the tests and if it fails, it will not > deliver the DLLs. Then I think you will never deliver. E.g., my perfectly good build failed 3 times in the test suite, due to problems in the test suite itself. I would expect at least one test to fail with each new release. > Do you have a better proposal (e.g. you want to be in charge of the > builds or you know volunteers who want to do it)? I don't know what it means to be "in charge". I did the port of 3.0.9, and I can refresh it from time to time, as my time permits. I cannot make any promises, and I certainly cannot produce a fresh port every 2 weeks. If some grave problem gets detected in the last port, and someone reports that a new version fixes that, I could try doing a quick port of that. If that's good enough, this part is covered; if not, someone else will have to do it. > I'm certainly not looking for more work for myself, but it seems no > one else wants to automate this. As I said, automation is not the issue (how hard is it to type the 3 commands, including "make install-strip", needed to produce a new set of binaries?). But feel free to set it up, maybe I'm wrong and the problem is not as complicated as I think it is. > The fact that the GnuTLS developers don't support W32 well is partly due > to the lack of binary builds for that platform. I think things will > improve as up-to-date DLLs become available. Well, they are available now, but I see no change, at least not judging by the traffic on the mailing list. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-26 21:07 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-26 21:39 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2012-01-26 22:53 ` Juanma Barranquero 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2012-01-26 22:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Emacs developers; +Cc: help-emacs-windows 2012/1/26 Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>: > That's not what I asked, though I truly appreciate the work you've > done. I mean if I, the user, see that announcement, it would be > nice if it told me where to find the GnuTLS DLLs It's in README.W32, but the URL could also be mentioned in the release announcements. > and even nicer if they came with the binary. I still think we should not do that. Juanma ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-26 15:15 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-01-26 19:32 ` bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries Ted Zlatanov @ 2012-03-17 15:41 ` Uday S Reddy 2012-03-17 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii 2012-03-22 18:38 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2014-12-08 20:05 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Uday S Reddy @ 2012-03-17 15:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel; +Cc: help-emacs-windows On 1/26/2012 3:15 PM, Juanma Barranquero wrote: > > Christoph's binaries are built against gnutls-3.0.9, but they do not > include the GnuTLS DLLs. I tried out the 24.0.94 prerlease by setting `smtpmail-stream-type' to 'starttls. It came back saying: smtpmail-send-it: Sending failed: Emacs does not support TLS, and no external `gnutls-cli.exe' program was found Running locate-file, I see (locate-file "gnutls-cli.exe" exec-path) "c:/Cygwin/bin/gnutls-cli.exe" Is this a regression? It runs fine in Emacs 23.3. Cheers, Uday ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-03-17 15:41 ` Uday S Reddy @ 2012-03-17 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii 2012-03-22 18:38 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2012-03-17 18:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Uday S Reddy; +Cc: help-emacs-windows, emacs-devel > From: Uday S Reddy <usr.vm.rocks@gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:41:21 +0000 > Cc: help-emacs-windows@gnu.org > > On 1/26/2012 3:15 PM, Juanma Barranquero wrote: > > > > > Christoph's binaries are built against gnutls-3.0.9, but they do not > > include the GnuTLS DLLs. > > I tried out the 24.0.94 prerlease by setting `smtpmail-stream-type' to > 'starttls. > > It came back saying: > > smtpmail-send-it: Sending failed: Emacs does not support TLS, and > no external `gnutls-cli.exe' program was found > > Running locate-file, I see > > (locate-file "gnutls-cli.exe" exec-path) > "c:/Cygwin/bin/gnutls-cli.exe" > > Is this a regression? It runs fine in Emacs 23.3. As I wrote elsewhere, you don't have the GnuTLS binaries installed. Please do, and then it should "just work". ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-03-17 15:41 ` Uday S Reddy 2012-03-17 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2012-03-22 18:38 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2012-03-22 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Uday S Reddy; +Cc: help-emacs-windows, emacs-devel Uday S Reddy <usr.vm.rocks@gmail.com> writes: > smtpmail-send-it: Sending failed: Emacs does not support TLS, and > no external `gnutls-cli.exe' program was found > > Running locate-file, I see > > (locate-file "gnutls-cli.exe" exec-path) > "c:/Cygwin/bin/gnutls-cli.exe" This error message is totally wrong now, because we redefined to be: (defun starttls-available-p () "Say whether the STARTTLS programs are available." (and (not (memq system-type '(windows-nt ms-dos))) (executable-find (if starttls-use-gnutls starttls-gnutls-program starttls-program)))) That is, if we're under Windows, we just give up, because gnutls-cli doesn't work, because we don't have signals under Windows. So I'll fix the error message to be less misleading. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-26 15:15 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-01-26 19:32 ` bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries Ted Zlatanov 2012-03-17 15:41 ` Uday S Reddy @ 2014-12-08 20:05 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2014-12-08 20:31 ` Drew Adams 2014-12-08 20:50 ` Eli Zaretskii 2 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2014-12-08 20:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Juanma Barranquero; +Cc: 10612, emacs-devel, help-emacs-windows Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> writes: > Note (again) that the issue is not who builds the GnuTLS DLLs, but > whether they should be included with official (or semi-official, like > the snapshots) releases. Does the new semi-official build include the GnuTLS DLLs? It seems to include a lot of the other libraries, but it doesn't mention GnuTLS... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* RE: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2014-12-08 20:05 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2014-12-08 20:31 ` Drew Adams 2014-12-08 20:50 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2014-12-08 20:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen, Juanma Barranquero Cc: 10612, help-emacs-windows, emacs-devel Why is this being crossposted to 3 different Emacs mailing lists. Please keep it only for the bug list. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2014-12-08 20:05 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2014-12-08 20:31 ` Drew Adams @ 2014-12-08 20:50 ` Eli Zaretskii 2014-12-08 20:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2014-12-08 20:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: help-emacs-windows, lekktu, emacs-devel, 10612 > From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> > Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 21:05:12 +0100 > Cc: 10612@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, help-emacs-windows@gnu.org > > Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> writes: > > > Note (again) that the issue is not who builds the GnuTLS DLLs, but > > whether they should be included with official (or semi-official, like > > the snapshots) releases. > > Does the new semi-official build include the GnuTLS DLLs? It seems to > include a lot of the other libraries, but it doesn't mention GnuTLS... It doesn't include any DLLs except libXpm (which is needed for the tool-bar icons). It was built with GnuTLS, though, so if the end user installs GnuTLS, Emacs will find it and use it. (We never distributed Windows DLLs with Emacs, because that would require us to host their sources, their dependencies, and the sources of their dependencies on ftp.gnu.org, which IIRC raises all kinds of questions and issues with their licenses.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2014-12-08 20:50 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2014-12-08 20:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2014-12-08 21:10 ` Óscar Fuentes 2016-02-05 7:28 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2014-12-08 20:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 10612, help-emacs-windows, emacs-devel, lekktu Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > It doesn't include any DLLs except libXpm (which is needed for the > tool-bar icons). It was built with GnuTLS, though, so if the end user > installs GnuTLS, Emacs will find it and use it. Yeah, but there are other less official builds (i.e., not official at all), like those linked from here: http://www.emacswiki.org/CategoryWThirtyTwo I couldn't tell whether any of those included GnuTLS... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2014-12-08 20:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2014-12-08 21:10 ` Óscar Fuentes 2014-12-08 21:24 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2016-02-05 7:28 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Óscar Fuentes @ 2014-12-08 21:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel; +Cc: help-emacs-windows Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > >> It doesn't include any DLLs except libXpm (which is needed for the >> tool-bar icons). It was built with GnuTLS, though, so if the end user >> installs GnuTLS, Emacs will find it and use it. > > Yeah, but there are other less official builds (i.e., not official at > all), like those linked from here: > > http://www.emacswiki.org/CategoryWThirtyTwo > > I couldn't tell whether any of those included GnuTLS... The binaries distributed by the MSYS2 project comes with GnuTLS libraries (and every other Emacs dependency supported on Windows.) Why do you ask? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2014-12-08 21:10 ` Óscar Fuentes @ 2014-12-08 21:24 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2014-12-08 21:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Óscar Fuentes; +Cc: help-emacs-windows, emacs-devel Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es> writes: > The binaries distributed by the MSYS2 project comes with GnuTLS > libraries (and every other Emacs dependency supported on Windows.) > > Why do you ask? I didn't, bug#10612 asked. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2014-12-08 20:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2014-12-08 21:10 ` Óscar Fuentes @ 2016-02-05 7:28 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2016-02-05 7:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: lekktu, 10612, emacs-devel, help-emacs-windows Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > >> It doesn't include any DLLs except libXpm (which is needed for the >> tool-bar icons). It was built with GnuTLS, though, so if the end user >> installs GnuTLS, Emacs will find it and use it. > > Yeah, but there are other less official builds (i.e., not official at > all), like those linked from here: > > http://www.emacswiki.org/CategoryWThirtyTwo > > I couldn't tell whether any of those included GnuTLS... They do: http://emacsbinw64.sourceforge.net/ 100% unmodified source code from git master and release version. Native 64-Bit binary for MS-Windows. Compiled with optimization. With JPEG, GIF, PNG, TIFF, SVG, XML2, and GnuTLS support. So I'm closing this wishlist bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-26 15:44 ` bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries (was: bug#10215: 24.0.92; Can't contact nnimap (gnutls-cli not found)) Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-26 15:15 ` Juanma Barranquero @ 2012-01-29 16:00 ` Christoph Scholtes 2012-01-29 16:47 ` Juanma Barranquero ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Christoph Scholtes @ 2012-01-29 16:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Emacs-Devel devel, Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: Juanma Barranquero, Eli Zaretskii Ted, On 1/26/2012 8:44 AM, Ted Zlatanov wrote: > Christoph, can you add a GnuTLS build step to your Emacs build for > Windows, so the latest GnuTLS version can be used on that platform? We > had a long conversation about this and at least for now it seems to be > the best approach (and we agreed it would not be a task for the core > Emacs developers). If you prefer, I can set up a BuildBot to produce > the GnuTLS DLLs for you. From what Eli said about his experience building GnuTLS on W32 this is something I'd rather not take on. My time is rather limited. I am happy to build against whichever GnuTLS lib with binaries is available for W32 wherever. Whether that is on Eli's site or the official GnuTLS site. I will also include a link to a location where to obtain the binaries in my release announcements from now on. Regarding shipping Emacs with the GnuTLS binaries, I am generally not opposed to doing that. But what about jpeg, gif, tiff support? I agree with Juanma who IIRC said that we are providing an _Emacs binary distribution_. This whole model does not fit the expectations in the Windows world. In 2012, Windows users expect an "Emacs for Windows" with all (binary) batteries included, an installer/uninstaller, etc. We don't supply that and unless somebody steps up and does the work necessary we won't. Whether politically speaking we should is another question. Right now I am building against Eli's library v3.0.9. If you provide a more recent, working, binary build for Windows and there is a somewhat convenient way for me to get it (I can script downloading and unzip'ing) I can include it in the binary distribution. That is, of course, if nobody has compelling arguments why I should not. Do we have to provide the source for GnuTLS if we include it in the distro or is it enough for it to be available on the GnuTLS site? Christoph ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-29 16:00 ` Christoph Scholtes @ 2012-01-29 16:47 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-01-29 17:08 ` Christoph Scholtes 2012-01-29 17:05 ` Eli Zaretskii 2012-01-30 13:07 ` Ted Zlatanov 2 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2012-01-29 16:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Christoph Scholtes; +Cc: Ted Zlatanov, Eli Zaretskii, Emacs-Devel devel On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 17:00, Christoph Scholtes <cschol2112@googlemail.com> wrote: > I agree with > Juanma who IIRC said that we are providing an _Emacs binary distribution_. Yes, and only because we're sort of forced to do it. > I can include > it in the binary distribution. That is, of course, if nobody has compelling > arguments why I should not. Apart from politics, the other reason against (whether other people finds it compelling or not, I don't know), is that including the binary means taking responsibility. For example, to release security upgrades as soon as possible, at least for serious bugs. That also means monitoring the GnuTLS lists (or security bulletins). Which is currently done, I think, but what if the people doing it suddently lacks time or just moves to other pursuits? It's easy to start distributing the GnuTLS DLLs, harder to stop doing it. Juanma ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-29 16:47 ` Juanma Barranquero @ 2012-01-29 17:08 ` Christoph Scholtes 2012-01-29 17:26 ` Juanma Barranquero 0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Christoph Scholtes @ 2012-01-29 17:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Juanma Barranquero; +Cc: Ted Zlatanov, Eli Zaretskii, Emacs-Devel devel On 1/29/2012 9:47 AM, Juanma Barranquero wrote: >> I agree with >> Juanma who IIRC said that we are providing an _Emacs binary distribution_. > > Yes, and only because we're sort of forced to do it. Why is that? > Apart from politics, the other reason against (whether other people > finds it compelling or not, I don't know), is that including the > binary means taking responsibility. For example, to release security > upgrades as soon as possible, at least for serious bugs. That also > means monitoring the GnuTLS lists (or security bulletins). Which is > currently done, I think, but what if the people doing it suddently > lacks time or just moves to other pursuits? It's easy to start > distributing the GnuTLS DLLs, harder to stop doing it. I agree, but doesn't that also start with compiling support for GnuTLS into the prebuilt Emacs? Don't we start taking responsibility at that point? If there is a security update for GnuTLS that requires the user to use the latest certain version, don't we have to provide support for the latest version in the binary? Assuming that you can't use the fixed binary with the previous versions headers, that is. Christoph ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-29 17:08 ` Christoph Scholtes @ 2012-01-29 17:26 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-01-30 1:00 ` Chong Yidong 0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2012-01-29 17:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Christoph Scholtes; +Cc: Ted Zlatanov, Eli Zaretskii, Emacs-Devel devel On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 18:08, Christoph Scholtes <cschol2112@googlemail.com> wrote: > Why is that? Because the number of Windows machines with a compiler and a build environment is almost zero, and though they are available (and free) the average Windows users knows nothing about them and wouldn't know how to (or be interested in) install and use them. It's been said a few times here, by RMS and others, than providing Emacs for Windows (binary or not) is intended to be a bridgehead to introduce users of non-free software to the advantages of free software (not to facilitate them using Windows). If we didn't offer binaries for Windows, almost nobody would use it. It's politically convenient to provide them. > I agree, but doesn't that also start with compiling support for GnuTLS into > the prebuilt Emacs? No. That's just an enabler. Whether they use it or not is their decision, and they should be aware of the risks and benefits before doing it. > If there is a security update for GnuTLS that requires the user to use the > latest certain version, don't we have to provide support for the latest > version in the binary? Yes, but bugs that force a change in the API are less frequent. Of course as soon as we add some capability we expose the user to security risks (23.4 wouldn't be needed without EDE). We have to put the line at some point. And, in any case, bearing the responsibility of the upgrades isn't my main objection, and never has, just another inconvenience. The main argument is still that GnuTLS, etc. have their own projects and maintainers, and they should be the ones taking care of building and distributing it. Juanma ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-29 17:26 ` Juanma Barranquero @ 2012-01-30 1:00 ` Chong Yidong 2012-01-30 12:53 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Chong Yidong @ 2012-01-30 1:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Juanma Barranquero Cc: Christoph Scholtes, Ted Zlatanov, Eli Zaretskii, Emacs-Devel devel Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> writes: > The main argument is still that GnuTLS, etc. have their own projects > and maintainers, and they should be the ones taking care of building > and distributing it. Agreed. I think it is sufficient to have a URL to the GnuTLS binaries (and sources!). If the worry is that Windows users won't see that URL, we can put the notice somewhere on our webpage next to the download link, and/or in a "read me first" file on the FTP site. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-30 1:00 ` Chong Yidong @ 2012-01-30 12:53 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2012-01-30 12:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:00:00 +0800 Chong Yidong <cyd@gnu.org> wrote: CY> Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> writes: >> The main argument is still that GnuTLS, etc. have their own projects >> and maintainers, and they should be the ones taking care of building >> and distributing it. CY> Agreed. I think it is sufficient to have a URL to the GnuTLS binaries CY> (and sources!). If the worry is that Windows users won't see that URL, CY> we can put the notice somewhere on our webpage next to the download CY> link, and/or in a "read me first" file on the FTP site. That would be wonderful. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-29 16:00 ` Christoph Scholtes 2012-01-29 16:47 ` Juanma Barranquero @ 2012-01-29 17:05 ` Eli Zaretskii 2012-01-30 13:07 ` Ted Zlatanov 2 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2012-01-29 17:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Christoph Scholtes; +Cc: lekktu, tzz, emacs-devel > Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 09:00:30 -0700 > From: Christoph Scholtes <cschol2112@googlemail.com> > CC: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> > > Do we have to provide the source for GnuTLS if we include it in the > distro Yes, we do. For GnuTLS and for all its dependency DLLs as well (4 other packages, you will find them in my binary distro). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-29 16:00 ` Christoph Scholtes 2012-01-29 16:47 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-01-29 17:05 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2012-01-30 13:07 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-30 13:18 ` Juanma Barranquero 2 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2012-01-30 13:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 09:00:30 -0700 Christoph Scholtes <cschol2112@googlemail.com> wrote: CS> Regarding shipping Emacs with the GnuTLS binaries, I am generally not CS> opposed to doing that. But what about jpeg, gif, tiff support? I agree CS> with Juanma who IIRC said that we are providing an _Emacs binary CS> distribution_. This whole model does not fit the expectations in the CS> Windows world. In 2012, Windows users expect an "Emacs for Windows" CS> with all (binary) batteries included, an installer/uninstaller, CS> etc. We don't supply that and unless somebody steps up and does the CS> work necessary we won't. Whether politically speaking we should is CS> another question. I will work on a W32 Emacs installer shell, wrapping your latest binaries and the other libraries' binaries, with other volunteers outside the emacs-devel scope, once I have GnuTLS builds automated. At that point it will probably automatically build the other libraries as well. Thanks for your feedback. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries 2012-01-30 13:07 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2012-01-30 13:18 ` Juanma Barranquero 0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2012-01-30 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Emacs developers 2012/1/30 Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>: > I will work on a W32 Emacs installer shell, wrapping your latest > binaries and the other libraries' binaries, with other volunteers > outside the emacs-devel scope I would be glad to help. > At > that point it will probably automatically build the other libraries as > well. If that project also makes availables the other libraries' binaries to download (not just as part of an installer), that would be swell. Juanma ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2016-02-05 7:28 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 30+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <84boromyob.fsf@tum.de> [not found] ` <m3lipk5scv.fsf@stories.gnus.org> [not found] ` <84ipknew07.fsf@tum.de> [not found] ` <87ipjzs512.fsf@gnus.org> 2012-01-26 15:44 ` bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries (was: bug#10215: 24.0.92; Can't contact nnimap (gnutls-cli not found)) Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-26 15:15 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-01-26 19:32 ` bug#10612: GnuTLS bundled with the windows Emacs binaries Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-26 19:36 ` [h-e-w] " Eli Zaretskii 2012-01-26 21:07 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-26 21:39 ` Eli Zaretskii 2012-01-27 15:59 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-27 15:30 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-01-30 12:59 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-27 15:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 2012-01-26 22:53 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-03-17 15:41 ` Uday S Reddy 2012-03-17 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii 2012-03-22 18:38 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2014-12-08 20:05 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2014-12-08 20:31 ` Drew Adams 2014-12-08 20:50 ` Eli Zaretskii 2014-12-08 20:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2014-12-08 21:10 ` Óscar Fuentes 2014-12-08 21:24 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2016-02-05 7:28 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2012-01-29 16:00 ` Christoph Scholtes 2012-01-29 16:47 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-01-29 17:08 ` Christoph Scholtes 2012-01-29 17:26 ` Juanma Barranquero 2012-01-30 1:00 ` Chong Yidong 2012-01-30 12:53 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-29 17:05 ` Eli Zaretskii 2012-01-30 13:07 ` Ted Zlatanov 2012-01-30 13:18 ` Juanma Barranquero
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