From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: forward-comment and syntax-ppss Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 14:54:34 -0500 Message-ID: <6a77a42f-0bc8-de8f-bae8-44e48a174e7e@gmail.com> References: <20161206195507.GA2996@acm.fritz.box> <83fd1db0-7362-6117-c5cd-715398c0dea4@gmail.com> <20161207220447.GA4503@acm.fritz.box> <2b1c72b9-8d69-5b93-26dc-7f51c5683d0c@gmail.com> <20161208193103.GA3120@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="4RnQPkkpfM6eUk9MOxvXRmoMqwpXuEoLS" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1481226910 2527 195.159.176.226 (8 Dec 2016 19:55:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 19:55:10 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 08 20:55:04 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cF4mW-0007lN-3L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2016 20:55:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48577 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cF4ma-0003jy-3Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2016 14:55:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42421) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cF4mR-0003jG-Ff for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2016 14:55:00 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cF4mN-0007Id-KF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2016 14:54:59 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.13]:63576) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cF4mN-0007IV-7g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2016 14:54:55 -0500 Original-Received: from [18.26.2.123] ([18.26.2.123]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue103 [212.227.15.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MBIsH-1cOfhR2i29-00AEca; Thu, 08 Dec 2016 20:54:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20161208193103.GA3120@acm.fritz.box> X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:v7X/562k4HjI9p5sWhV+ZB1tSsxsNWwMRwMH7JpS+T1HcQi3MQS bBv/wrczd/Z5EO9k4T23ore0NCMOZnRmtaZBgEmlbZ5WgElpzZxVpFhE4/KNtGd+kJrGrbI 9IY5xXglp6FfBx0CUyUTePWxKJ8JUAHMgJCC/I9WnBudB9etI2O2JGaGFSCzREyRGYUGsYw kMt+uVJka/Nf0KjwyTebg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:KArt3SVx0nI=:AYMqZEfLwW8Mv7peFznFIC UZkjzyGIgab14+ndvaqLYnJFdY897jMeKYmgnI15KPSn8m959LTkp9rcDj577mwHDctM5XlXx 1EvZ0+Z4q+sgGrn9iTZmoXxdCvNpeYMQ31u4xr8LYNanU/1y2uSHAbLhznhw4GAZYT8lAvYOg 4H5ytIUD2H/2bFcXNLSHvIowLAOFJdkd3TmtahRBBztSzyqlJuwh6GkxPZzXWsvrwe4llzlPy FvHK6GEk45xk1mS5X+GGTtNkJ6JETjJb9qfchNHXnv5GART37cSL5yVodbWlRtoYa7tmt1SiD N12EXbQmHM4AJmo4gNLYIFX8hVAdYk3Y7AQbbYitZ64IMJomEU8lp5ZT80wiGBOcQ4xXD/XFE 9CMB0euwHNzIaiRUApw7jhDSNWPriViAA6/ZfTT40tjfp1/FopgeKuEvOCjDLGsdKKFX/gCKL LbgSZgsPOJFmDlyCfKAFlRKuaVEFA5Khq6vq138+rb8/42Mbc1hEVF4+R769b+vJ48MYjlvWp MRcNI9WYi6i9BWh2/pdXdu/2QW4+AK49c5UjB306NBcFgHvmLfrV+1R5EdKAxc91hQqaulINh gOE1vAYlrTs39ZayauLb3EoTYIFPIAw8j74byu4i3rmcW9YAXteubXOUyyimmpWbrXu+vbskC mN+KFupb/F872HPxINaOttQKJqyMQY/f+ouR4MbzfygSfzbMdpq8MJcUyPKZP0ZTbmXM= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 212.227.17.13 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:210150 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --4RnQPkkpfM6eUk9MOxvXRmoMqwpXuEoLS Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="KRlAIF6KmOqderojJg1dI1QDqDeD1wDrC"; protected-headers="v1" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: Alan Mackenzie Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Message-ID: <6a77a42f-0bc8-de8f-bae8-44e48a174e7e@gmail.com> Subject: Re: forward-comment and syntax-ppss References: <20161206195507.GA2996@acm.fritz.box> <83fd1db0-7362-6117-c5cd-715398c0dea4@gmail.com> <20161207220447.GA4503@acm.fritz.box> <2b1c72b9-8d69-5b93-26dc-7f51c5683d0c@gmail.com> <20161208193103.GA3120@acm.fritz.box> In-Reply-To: <20161208193103.GA3120@acm.fritz.box> --KRlAIF6KmOqderojJg1dI1QDqDeD1wDrC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-12-08 14:31, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> Stefan and you are in a better position than I am to assess the >> significance of that issue. The only data point that I can share is >> that I've found multiple packages to be broken by narrowing, to the >> point that I don't use narrowing any more. > > That's tragic. You clearly wanted to use narrowing, yet some bug, quit= e > likely to be #22983, made narrowing such a bad experience that you > stopped using it. Did you raise any bug reports for these failures? These are not Emacs bugs. They are bugs in packages. The most prominent= one, which affects my day to day work, is in Proof General (which I have= since then become a co-maintainer of). The problem is simple. Proof General locks portions of the source code t= hat have been sent to an underlying interpreter/compiler. This locking i= s achieved by placing read-only overlays spanning from (point-min) to the= current point, every time a new region is sent. There are many such places; unfortunately, the use of (point-min) means t= hat the overlays do not have the right starting point: they start from th= e beginning of the narrowed region. It's hard to fix this issue, because uses of point-min don't carry suffic= ient semantic information: did the original author mean (point-min), or 1= ? There's no general way to tell but to read the surrounding code. > Narrowing isn't "invasive", whatever that means. It's such a natural a= nd > useful feature that it's surprising other editors haven't got it too. > It's the pertinent bug (likely to be #22983) which has screwed up code > when narrowing is used which is at fault, not narrowing itself. Sorry to have been unclear. Restricting the visible and editable portion= of a buffer feels natural; but that's not what narrowing does: it makes = it so that naively written code doesn't realize that there is anything ou= tside of the narrowed region. That's what I meant by "invasive": as a pa= ckage writer, I must always be aware that (point-min)=85(point-max) may o= nly cover a subset of the buffer. 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