From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Howard Melman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Introducing thread-safe Tramp Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 11:52:12 -0400 Message-ID: <6FE4BF06-5CD2-49B1-AC7F-F8BA49F09254@gmail.com> References: <8736wa9c5s.fsf@gmx.de> <87wotkn6do.fsf@gmx.de> <874lgn8x6l.fsf@gmx.de> <87sh44pisz.fsf@gmx.de> <87a7qbitc7.fsf@gmx.de> <878t5tdsfc.fsf@gmx.de> <83wotcpzub.fsf@gnu.org> <87bmaiuwml.fsf@gmx.de> <877el6uwio.fsf@gmx.de> <7c28f9d8-e2bb-4778-ab92-92707f12718f@default> <837el6t8r3.fsf@gnu.org> <39939ea5-a7c2-400a-9ac1-4df7cf4fcb42@default> <871sbbrk9m.fsf@gmx.de> <8476cec3-45ab-486b-854b-fe045fbff902@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1533571782 2430 195.159.176.226 (6 Aug 2018 16:09:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 16:09:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Michael Albinus , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 06 18:09:37 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fmi4c-0000UD-Th for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 18:09:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34957 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fmi6j-0003Si-KJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 12:11:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58555) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fmhnv-0002v7-Hv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 11:52:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fmhnr-00088F-Hp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 11:52:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qk0-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c09::230]:45549) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fmhnr-000889-AM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 11:52:15 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qk0-x230.google.com with SMTP id c192-v6so9187911qkg.12 for ; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 08:52:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=bFTFYBbUFY9YtoBS6dJIaPvauSPcnDwwUVEA+dX/QmE=; b=I8MH7T0zSu2TPgJKQLr9kxMeUQbX0WaOn5uN9FIntxLllb26iCtRgLTPIR/xbnwfPY IlqV+frxKNtWWE5l61EWL3XrdchVITYqsa3OOSeUUtVbwrCLgYEigu7Gw/NfsL+2nqef RjVGG6SYqwHbQTnVV0CooMHfKy50TLc7eIZ1bz2JKxtUBFqpFhR1jTpJnwfKx5jFCtDW GZBID5UO8jgIYqFPhRQkU8NIM+nf8idRemStJigTj9HkAI+MKKPCbfLXQc1yrkR2EySK nh09tl33resT+vukpVeNq+ANa5I0cExKHsT8KrPAavVsTXhTqz0ytuz14T4teUh6a8bP HITg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=bFTFYBbUFY9YtoBS6dJIaPvauSPcnDwwUVEA+dX/QmE=; b=uCnVwQT80lEUrd79li0k+diIJ+UuinNuUZCT+8WyuoVcWlVdUPUWhMHVqp/+acpIEg mHvm4Cp4kAow4pwu7pRSg/u5aG8JojFP3gMAy/2EJ/XoQ/Z0u02DoABcLjgbaTYlI7E+ stva7In+mkeUteYRxGuBT0zHPNkq+fOv4sl9eo6bZ/fQZuLZxOsdWwMo2caXgGFxEweM CwC1KdsQrQ+whhLIb/8Ne/Wo744BEym6bkn8vzJlzItYEHv0oZ3HtfWWWOu9C7JXVmWA tAxK41QgFPCXdbmuviAD1mt3FVFArdexnKS+KfEItEla4aonpI++0vkqC5+pkE09YS0/ 4dmg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlH18TN94DDiRR//1JNnSGf7IQbTD38qOyMiWZOVMa5H7Q76BNp2 gjbpNMHhWf9VXmk5B/XepRM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpdVAXJmlwi91u9IXpyFYWd/4iugu7k89jOzfKkZm5qOMoUr+7px//NgSZU8duF7ySiB5MnXJA== X-Received: by 2002:a37:b286:: with SMTP id b128-v6mr13952929qkf.158.1533570734579; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from lumet.home (pool-108-26-190-50.bstnma.fios.verizon.net. [108.26.190.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f70-v6sm7087623qke.77.2018.08.06.08.52.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 06 Aug 2018 08:52:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <8476cec3-45ab-486b-854b-fe045fbff902@default> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c09::230 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 12:11:03 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:228232 Archived-At: > On Aug 6, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Drew Adams wrote: >=20 >>> My sense is that the proposed C-x & is a prefix, because it >>> is used before another key sequence. It is not an argument >>> because it doesn't affect the functions' argument list the >>> way C-u does. >>> Maybe the term should be "prefix sequence"? >=20 >> I like this proposal. "Prefix key sequence" would be more precise, = but >> it doesn't read fluid. If there isn't any objection over the next = week, >> I'll apply your wording. >=20 > Please don't. >=20 > This is _not_ a prefix key. A key is a key sequence. A prefix key is a = key sequence that is a prefix of a larger key sequence. But in Emacs a = prefix key also has the specific meaning of a key sequence that is bound = to a keymap. `C-x &' is not bound to a keymap, and is thus not a prefix = key (sequence). >=20 > Until and unless we really do decide to baptize this and document it, = please just what RMS suggested: don't call it anything. Certainly please = do not call it just a "prefix" or a "prefix key (sequence)". Having reread the Keys section of the Emacs manual I see your objection. = Since "key" is short for "key sequence", then indeed it's not a "prefix = key (sequence)" or a "(prefix key) sequence". My intention was to read = it as "prefix (key sequence)", as something that comes before a key = sequence, though clearly the ambiguity is an issue. > What is it a prefix of? A prefix is part of what it is a prefix of. It's a prefix of a key sequence, and it is a key sequence itself ("a = sequence of one or more input events is is meaningful as a unit"). It's = kind of a "complete key" ("a key sequence [that] invokes a command"), = though it's a "complete key" that needs more. Maybe it's a = "semi-complete key" as something between the existing terms "complete = key" and "prefix key" and the full sequence C-x & C-x C-f is still a = complete key sequence. As you pointed out, technically C-u isn't a prefix key because it calls = the command universal-argument, maybe it also is a semi-complete key. = (Though clearly it would always be more useful to describe C-u as = beginning a prefix argument). >>> Wasn't there are a proposal at one point to do something >>> similar for C-x 4 and C-x 5 so that there didn't have to be >>> -other-window and -other-frame variants of so many >>> commands? >>=20 >> I'm not aware of such a proposal (which only means that my memory is >> bad), but it makes sense. >=20 > I believe he's thinking of Stefan's wish to have prefix keys `C-x 4' = and `C-x 5' work automatically, without defining separate other-window = and other-frame commands. That's something completely different. Let's = please not let this thread wander farther than it already has. Yes, that's what I was thinking of. I'm not sure if there was a proposed = implementation or if it was similar to this one, but the usage struck me = as similar. Since this is a proposal to name a new kind of thing, it = didn't feel like wandering to to test it against other similar kinds of = proposals to see if it would cover them as well. Howard=20