From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Selection changes in revno 100822 Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 21:48:50 -0700 Message-ID: <6ECBD0370E514CF9A796DCE4F366B46F@us.oracle.com> References: <834oeyv3ww.fsf@gnu.org> <87mxsqyp98.fsf@stupidchicken.com><83zkwptyij.fsf@gnu.org> <4C66660D.3090603@swipnet.se><83sk2htp82.fsf@gnu.org> <4C66A8C5.4040203@harpegolden.net><83hbixte8c.fsf@gnu.org> <87wrrs276x.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1281847801 2892 80.91.229.12 (15 Aug 2010 04:50:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 04:50:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'David De La Harpe Golden' , jan.h.d@swipnet.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Chong Yidong'" , "'Eli Zaretskii'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 15 06:49:59 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkVAV-0006qP-3d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:49:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53341 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OkVAU-0000hA-Iv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:49:58 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=60196 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OkVAL-0000fB-Kp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:49:50 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkVAK-0006jc-G1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:49:49 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:49844) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkVAK-0006jY-82; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:49:48 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o7F4njmZ010345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 15 Aug 2010 04:49:47 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o7F49EWm018736; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 04:49:44 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt003.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 496627541281847735; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 21:48:55 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.223.223) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 21:48:54 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87wrrs276x.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Thread-Index: Acs7+wBqwWKJAgPcRoCtadELuIl3hAAMUSuQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128722 Archived-At: > Here is a summary of the current scheme: First, thanks for this summary. It doesn't seem complete, but it is a start, helping us understand what is being proposed. > 1. Each time the mark is deactivated, the selected text is added to > the primary selection. If deactivation occurs as a result > of a buffer modification, the text that is added is the text in > the region prior to the modification. > > 2. If the region is temporarily active after a command (e.g. after a > mouse drag or shift selection), the selected text is added to the > primary selection, even if the mark is not deactivated. > > 3. If you deactivate the mark with C-g, the selected text > is not added to the primary selection. > > 4. Any kill command sets clipboard in addition to the kill-ring; any > yank command inserts the clipboard contents, if possible > (x-select-enable-clipboard). > > 5. mouse-2 yanks primary. You don't say here whether selecting using the mouse copies to the kill-ring. And you don't say whether C-y after selecting with the mouse yanks what was selected. > if you mark a region with C-SPC and do C-w, you won't be able > to paste the text in with mouse-2, unlike earlier Emacs versions. My primary concern right now (because it is what I use most now) is the behavior on Windows, but I do care also about the behavior on other platforms. And I'm curious. What is the rationale for such behavior (C-w followed by mouse-2 will prevent it from yanking what was killed)? Apparently C-SPC plus motion to select, followed by mouse-2, does yank what was selected (good), but if you use C-w (or M-w, for that matter) before clicking mouse-2 then nothing is yanked (bad). Do people really feel it is convenient to _not_ be able to use mouse-2 to yank the front of the kill ring? Sounds like we'd be giving up some convenient Emacs copy+yank behavior. What's the upside to compensate for the loss? What would users gain by this change? I really don't understand what is going on (why). Is this all just about limiting Emacs to make it more like other apps on X? If so, then please tell us more about what we will gain in Emacs, besides standardization/compatibility? I've always found Emacs copy/kill/yank to be superior to what I've seen elsewhere, in which case standardization would mean a downgrade. But I'm no expert on this. Please tell us what good we'll be getting. AFAICS we haven't yet gotten a simple description of the proposed changes, in terms of how they will affect users: use cases, pros & cons, what will change and why.