From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [found the culprit] Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 08:17:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <699bb0e3-e2b9-43e9-b5e5-8113a7219d6b@default> References: <27024.1542249282@alto> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1542384918 4709 195.159.176.226 (16 Nov 2018 16:15:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 16:15:18 +0000 (UTC) To: =?utf-8?B?Q2zDqW1lbnQgUGl0LUNsYXVkZWw=?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 16 17:15:14 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gNgm1-00014U-AN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 17:15:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45569 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gNgo7-0002qM-NO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:17:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34207) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gNgnx-0002p8-0m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:17:13 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gNgnt-0006Uy-4X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:17:12 -0500 Original-Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:51744) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gNgnp-0006Ti-8S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:17:07 -0500 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id wAGG9Vx1162979; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 16:17:02 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=VplHI1uHpK40zwfVVYiFQcRi/sJRyzJiaxszRrUUk2U=; b=gJUY0M6aHH6/45+v3yFjrh3pRO9/p73x5UCuf7+bydk1kqwy7s/OXFL77GPZDctNX4op lha6pyJ5PgBtNkteLTuL24owuTTE0k51P9zsSWFae32kidF/OjicNKTYBILlOUIZjV4w c4L9Lj0YA2juDVGb7JF30X4SJTUE93W969ZtP9srZ4lrRyD5GdroIBO9hHmoeV9dzEsb jkF0deymXO/fbxixykN7bCu/aSWVT5If6hHauYKbGl/GNcbQ1B1cTRqcqtqdetJsAy8S WM7XULGzdoBAP5z6ZAqX10LTaDc4itBbkzp/Ot/zGPZu17LifelOXteRMDsh8tWRjSYx +g== Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2nr7csg4bf-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Nov 2018 16:17:02 +0000 Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id wAGGH1JK021494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Nov 2018 16:17:02 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id wAGGH1JY017923; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 16:17:01 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4756.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9078 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=684 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1811160143 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.86 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:231197 Archived-At: > > I agree with you about what Z should do, but there is an additional > > reason. > > > > The meaning of Z is to compress or uncompress. Extracting an archive i= s > > a different operation; it is semantically incoherent for Z to extract > > an archive. > > > > If we want a Dired command to extract archives, we should add one. > > It can handle .tgz files as well as .tar files and other archive types. >=20 > I think this distinction (unpacking vs decompressing) is too subtle. Wha= t > should we do on formats that support both, like zip? That is, should Z o= n a > zip archive just change its compression mode to store, without extracting= the > files? Does zip "support both"? I think that's the difference: it does not do _each_ of those things; it has only one action, which combines both things. I can't speak for Richard, but my response to your question would be that if, as in the case of zip, there is _no distinction_, then we need not distinguish. We can just do what we do now: perform that atomic action. Call it compress/uncompress or pack/unpack or compress+pack/unpack+uncompress, or call it anything you like, for zip. There's nothing wrong with letting `Z' perform that one action and its inverse, alternately. The problem for tar.gz and .tgz is that there _is_ a distinction (regardless of how uncommonly people make use of it): plain tar exists: packed and uncompressed. As I said, and as Eli reiterated: let's have a separate command. As I said, I am even OK with letting the presumably more common use case get the `Z' binding (though that's not what I'd prefer because of backward compatibility). But what I don't think is a good idea is to remove support for uncompressing tar.gz/.tgz without unpacking. If necessary and if everyone wants the combination operation to get the `Z' binding, then put the presumably less-used single operation on a different command.