From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Wedler, Christoph" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [Feature request] face property `raise' Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:06:42 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <67B8CED503F3D511BB9F0008C75DAD6605485575@dewdfx17> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1049911951 22157 80.91.224.249 (9 Apr 2003 18:12:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:12:31 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 09 20:12:29 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 193K3h-0005lF-00 for ; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 20:12:29 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 193K8I-0005UI-00 for ; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 20:17:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 193K0h-0004PQ-01 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 14:09:23 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 193JzV-0003YM-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 14:08:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 193Jyv-0002Zz-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 14:07:35 -0400 Original-Received: from smtpde02.sap-ag.de ([155.56.68.170]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 193JyB-0001mR-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 14:06:47 -0400 Original-Received: from sap-ag.de (smtpde02) by smtpde02.sap-ag.de (out) with ESMTP id UAA12739; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:06:59 +0200 (MESZ) Original-To: "'kai.grossjohann@gmx.net'" , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) X-SAP: out X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:13083 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:13083 Kai Grossjohann wrote: > "Wedler, Christoph" writes: >> > I would like to see a face property `raise' with the same >> > semantics as the display property `raise'. >> >> > I don't think so. Raising is not a matter of how something is >> > displayed, but where it is displayed. >> >> Where something is displayed (at least relatively, and that's what >> `raise' is about) is a special case of how something is displayed. > [...] So I agree with Richard that it is about "where", and much less > about "how". ({Super,sub,...}scripts are usually smaller, so that > the size could be added to "how".) Hm, my point[1] was that the where-vs-how distinction is not only unclear[2], it's also not the right distinction to decide which property should be a display property and which a face property (the property `image' is clearly "how" and should be made a face property if I follow Richards reasoning). IMHO, the right distinction is: 1. If the value of a property is specific for ONE PART of the buffer, it is useful to have this property as a DISPLAY property. 2. If the value of a property is the same for a CLASS of characters in the buffer, it is useful to have this property as a FACE property. Example for 1: absolute positions (one kind of "where") are specific to one part of the buffer and are therefore useful for a display property (e.g., :align-to). Example for 1: most images shouldn't be displayed more than once in a buffer, i.e., there are specific to one part of the buffer => the image property is correctly a display property (images don't have to do anything with "where", don't they? ...but clearly with "how"!). (To support images as icons, one could imagine `image' as a face property, too.) Example for 2: property `raise' (I have already provided 2-3 examples: super-/subscripts and footnote numbers). If you have an example where it is useful to assign this property to one specific part of the buffer (and want a display property for this), that fine for me, but please make `raise' a face property, since it is mostly used for a CLASS of characters. - Christoph [1] unfortunately, only the intro of my message was cited, not part of the rest of the 45 lines... [2] relative-"where" can be seen as a specific "how". Kai, of course, if R (relative-"where") is a subset of W ("where") and H ("how"), and x (property raise) is an element of R, then x might be more about W than H, but it remains the fact that x is also an element of H.