From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:20:00 +0300 Message-ID: <6654ddbe-0f1b-f36e-26f2-f4ee178b12ac@yandex.ru> References: <838s7hxqkr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c2c69f9-f42e-45e2-ab0e-8506aa859f85@yandex.ru> <8335ven7tu.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15282"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 25 12:21:00 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1labsp-0003sL-Hp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 12:20:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52200 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1labso-0006TG-Lj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 06:20:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51410) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1labrz-0005yG-Li for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 06:20:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x433.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::433]:43746) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1labrx-0000SH-UR; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 06:20:07 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x433.google.com with SMTP id x7so52770910wrw.10; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 03:20:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hR141KokHVudMBI0+eH9itV50UFA1wL3ztx90LE8TlU=; b=g0K/9/N5JPdl5Ase3t2SepQJd2s1Gaqtj5PM0v1ZskWhXOfoztSjjtzsj1HNxNZIM5 PcVH14Fm62N2FmD0/ApLietjTBkFnMqt3MD2NxdoySW8/YrnDb5/Ywg+MRkWIYrgzS9l SX33SC5sI3ZU5eTzo3XEFhJDYSRBV6LA+O88k3LbHm7aIIdrKmHVpdl7zOWfG+7Sx4x3 06Sixjr8rVZhA77IJZ3xcLPjOcJ88Dh0WeI28WsTH0x8PerXUiCVEmrWQHX81Ow8OiUS 68mHMjs0mMTWIQmNjSI0gWlnN2V6G5UYTk0iI8Ff78aDS2GgLDQ8F8B7jIINqQijn8we gdIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=hR141KokHVudMBI0+eH9itV50UFA1wL3ztx90LE8TlU=; b=Tk3ClzpLJXuBiUgbnu0kaW4H6jTb8/N0rzGhlTt+lXvvM+icVizSLR8O3mVSpNwbWu Mw0qDqG2/D4B+G/GEKyKCP8bik6rZlTBzPvHErPLbJcfci/HXotiNI8kORqmh3fUnUev /1TWPvEekP5y2r22qmsedXNXlNLeUernQayT8flj/5tw/HXhfxEMeE7SdDHhFFjOKEgK Qy6b2xS5bZkIlYKRLdkUknyBDbfixbAjOapu3WT6gDmFsEOt4+RMrKP7fLaYXnMd79jp tlYuFTvwNyJEKGBnfUHoZyKt5lVNSpnjS8f+KnAhcvBaJsSwmw5q83qvsifNpURz3Fmb XExw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5325Fkz+3+w/ZxJCAl4SkRQM2i0+S7dCOhIwnhGekvbebwMQ3cSy /kh2Yhnhigpxkf9ZkbaZiT6egDSXt0g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzBZsuVXMbkMAaPpg/GcsnnJhbCN1DFv4cVU7LgNHwtpn3t3cFUz6mkuTvsd0H0j7TjJP+qmw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:144d:: with SMTP id v13mr16107145wrx.73.1619346003449; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 03:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id y14sm908623wrs.64.2021.04.25.03.20.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 25 Apr 2021 03:20:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8335ven7tu.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::433; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x433.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:268364 Archived-At: On 25.04.2021 10:26, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> Perhaps the easiest fix would be to handle Delete same as Backspace here. >> Yes, that could alleviate the problem in this particular case. > Please don't, that would be a horribly wrong change. I have described an obvious problem: Emacs says press DEL to scroll, the user presses Del on their keyboard, and Emacs exits instead. All that in a Help interface, which is supposed to help newbies. Not grizzled veterans. It's a real problem, if you want people to actually use this feature. > Like making C-f move backwards. If C-f never did anything in a certain interface, and doing this would help usability, why not.