From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Yuan Fu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 16:45:41 -0400 Message-ID: <64955D68-ED90-454C-B5AD-389BAD0870B1@gmail.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="23587"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: =?utf-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= , Emacs developers To: ndame Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 25 22:46:51 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jSRhK-0005zw-GM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 22:46:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47262 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSRhJ-0002pw-G6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 16:46:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47238) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSRgS-0001s0-9G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 16:45:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSRgN-0005GV-FF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 16:45:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qk1-x72c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::72c]:38107) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSRgM-0004l1-5e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 16:45:51 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qk1-x72c.google.com with SMTP id o19so14087395qkk.5 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:45:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=WaCMeLde8C1G+ZV0UQAPQd+mUm4EDtZQZ3C4f2hhs/s=; b=U8m/iIyTCbtuT7Ya37YdGPoMy/89+Si/aO1P7yYqro/eaxku4+BouBqndVFwQ2RUY8 2x+A4x8rtaW/X1wC37Z3P+5zhQkNX1WzjDHvH59UJ3w5OkwMCC7k484DIYBXA+tChsPi WPDESvluqmCe7fOoRfqOI7CQ4v0g/uvFO3bxo1czI1KCGBbjT6nUsGjbMWoYWc9xUCMf ZBZb8QFkx0RBsepb9Q0v1CNtemt3utMq6OLS20ixyWS3OsFe6guQIvoEV9RGFDke/IvV zT5f0exu+H35jTnN0+XANUJ7KUXzhpNGW6IYFoDC3tgC/VailWcwNktlfx16SAiaeD42 V9Aw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=WaCMeLde8C1G+ZV0UQAPQd+mUm4EDtZQZ3C4f2hhs/s=; b=N6dif7dUWFkm2Cj0DkrQYYiase9gYGi7hcQUpiYK0R+wHdYReLUw/UD0iq1g7E/psk lecf0t2s6DdtZFad3UDm8u2+MzLuz0hGOSXSkXEp8SWN3hRp+/lTihvOFt3hmld7GCoo sIB33i+M/rWOekkLK1uyJHB61loBhPtytYRyGdUcc8KV9plViC5dMRnGp/OsSfwH2Dq9 eK4kFOcVH65R8j7wA1PZzHPSrracUjaWjhqwDSrLoS1QcaWu3ucz+Bpcz2LfE52/fY0R hGZWe+cdzEn7yBsGStUx+0/Ndtqz6DY7Mbr6FL45Rwz4lWpVi/RG1049CRllUxXn7T82 0Uxw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaowO5i9qpbi2+geH4wNFLeGFLK1+dD1SMFdMVdQwe3neDHG1LW tmbiajL6Dmm/TFqtMU2tP2c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKhFPV00TY+WZatXSmzPcThZgkD4yBHxNTUFafLjUOncQd38sFlRQYNwBesikX6GCgpNAd4FA== X-Received: by 2002:a37:ac18:: with SMTP id e24mr15814567qkm.234.1587847543711; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.5] (c-174-60-229-153.hsd1.pa.comcast.net. [174.60.229.153]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d63sm6505186qkb.52.2020.04.25.13.45.43 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:45:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::72c; envelope-from=casouri@gmail.com; helo=mail-qk1-x72c.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::72c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247811 Archived-At: > On Apr 25, 2020, at 12:28 PM, ndame wrote: >=20 >>=20 >>> Is there such a thing? Or does learning emacs mostly pay off >>> for the advanced user? I can't think of a feature right know where >>> emacs shines for the casual user. >>=20 >> Org mode, magit, helm comes to my mind. >=20 >=20 > Orgmode is included, but helm and magit are in melpa. Emacs should = feature > packages which are accessible for the new user without tinkering. = Though, > if the newbie.el which can setup a beginner friendly environment if = emacs > is started without config is allowed to add melpa to the package list = and > install helm/magit automatically then it's ok, because then it is = instantly > available for the new user. >=20 > BTW, helm. Maybe the veterans don't recognize it, but the default = emacs completion > is extremely clunky, especially if one comes from other modern tools. >=20 > A user accustomed to modern tools expects something like this: >=20 > = https://resources.jetbrains.com/help/img/idea/2020.1/find_action_dialog.pn= g >=20 > A vertical list which is instantly filtered as you type. >=20 > Compared to this the default completion is hoplessly old fashioned = with its > multicolumn text display and having to press for TAB for the results. >=20 > Icomplete is a step in the right direction. The above mentioned = newbie.el > should set it up instead of the default completion. >=20 > Though, it's a single line displaying completions, a vertical display > could be better, especially if the entries are longer. >=20 > And someone did it already: >=20 > https://github.com/oantolin/icomplete-vertical >=20 > Icomplete-vertical should be adopted into the core as an option and = this > is how completion should be set up for newbies. >=20 > It's still not as good looking as the one on my first link, but it's > almost there. It's vertical, it gives you instant results, so it's = much > closer to completion provided by modern tools (Idea, VsCode, etc.) = than > the default one. >=20 Thanks for sharing! I tried to use icomplete with =E2=80=9C\n=E2=80=9D = separator, but encountered the problem that this package aims to solve. = This should definitely be included as bugfix. Yuan=