From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Charles Choi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Request to distribute Casual packages on NonGNU ELPA Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2024 10:01:22 -0700 Message-ID: <6366C9F7-06A7-44FB-B212-24A9F937A7F4@gmail.com> References: <8B0830CA-6995-454C-BC5A-E4247E259CE9@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51.11.1\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1760"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Stefan Kangas , Philip Kaludercic To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 26 19:02:28 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1strsp-0000NL-Sb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2024 19:02:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1strs7-00087A-IV; Thu, 26 Sep 2024 13:01:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1strs6-000871-HK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2024 13:01:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pl1-x62f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::62f]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1strs4-00039u-Nd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2024 13:01:42 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pl1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-205722ba00cso11477105ad.0 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2024 10:01:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1727370098; x=1727974898; darn=gnu.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=DAmdae+WLteVgyqPZrqmaQ+K0i7rEJDfeg3gP0VcB5A=; b=V+dityWgfG9ELWstw3OtvMuCKlfswnoauTNB9qsN7GxTrr8gAln6jTojGIzdtJ6g1R L7kOHRYjzR+HIODrpor8qL+cvMxZSupmJC/s7L3oJLLCuiMQ3jlOrlwk8zdjN5exvoiZ d06WCcz80eU7wBmE942yEKZRDpHFx+x44Go1Hou8k536V8QnCVJkD7XQkIzdtMQjt+vJ b3FNACZBefwDJ91733dQ27C/z+ggEu3zDAPwM798rnEDYfvwJugc4ikAwGIJ4YFxeOLD UVEXDQjby0e1hn+WOZu2AABh7hQL6hZkZsEsQNvsLkKjaT0oAseTBG/N4RK6flGhP2Gm 3+cA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1727370098; x=1727974898; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=DAmdae+WLteVgyqPZrqmaQ+K0i7rEJDfeg3gP0VcB5A=; b=KsIQ96QDRzufmqFevFOl//YjOs0qJ7c1JL1pmpr9jGQXxo1yf9CPRFwqUbR+IZe3i2 ybZk0R0ekVbB67ZoUEZXxOd+e8b6HaEv0X/5IxjMRxVzs6XYSrIhoSOISt4FI2Y67+zf wRfnglMykGKAX7kEVBGwBcrlz1rtwoPWOpZk/yztjypRIKZnlNcciLHDx/u3dVjVZhjC hrSWE2FrI+lO7tupLZWNuBeI09AhwU0O9aSrrERNDdqQq2T26HPKnKM0aR4DvDl+uLJ7 giyT//jwnsc3IXcKjvFojFKUgzPDE8rTofnxXgZNz57D/gPs0KZI+DLnMb9038qlmn9c KmxA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzE7UBBWG2uapDZqEjOETks7+LnB3dVGw8syWWsSUO6mGsKTdt1 eCF5UCScCUNLkgc+qzdfNRpstxbtrZpxvGifA5DUOFo183OMNIyKeKO3kQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEBy1li14Sjb8ufV5LVDmSEfnau5BqsLJWBSXimQ98wW/u78zmQHO6Hzi95cHpsKOFEswY/SQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:f68c:b0:205:5547:92d2 with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-20b37b922a7mr5740615ad.48.1727370098268; Thu, 26 Sep 2024 10:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-73-170-198-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.170.198.193]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d9443c01a7336-20b37e4e4desm750445ad.251.2024.09.26.10.01.36 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 26 Sep 2024 10:01:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51.11.1) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::62f; envelope-from=kickingvegas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x62f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:324116 Archived-At: Stefan - Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Casual. My responses to your input. > - Why so many packages? They could easily be bundled into just one > package. This is also strongly suggested by the fact that there is a > need for a `consult-bundle` package. There is little to no benefit = to > split it up, it just makes dealing with it more fiddly. The multitude of packages was to address user desire for granular = installation. As modes are different in their concerns, so are the = different Casual packages. For users unconcerned with granular = installation, the `casual-suite` package is designed to install all = Casual packages. Future Casual package releases are captured by = `casual-suite`. Is the multitude of Casual packages a block to distribution on NonGNU = ELPA? > - The Casual suite would benefit from having an Info manual. This is > related to the above point; there is a lot of duplicated information > in the various README files. While I am a strong advocate for good documentation, it is not clear to = me what the content requirements for a Casual Suite Info manual would = be. That said, I am open to pursuing this.=20 Is having a Casual Suite Info manual a requirement for distribution on = NonGNU ELPA?=20 > - `casual-dired` changes some of the default Dired keybindings. I = think > this is confusing, and reduces the value of `casual-dired` as a > learning and/or help tool. It should be possible to use the = transient > menu for Dired without being forced to use the new keybindings. >=20 > This suggests to me that there should be a completely separate mode, > perhaps not even part of Casual, to enable the "new and improved" > keybindings everywhere: in Dired, in the Casual transient menu, etc. > This would broaden its applicability to more use cases; for example, = I > might want to use the transient menu, but I have little to no = interest > in non-default Dired keybindings. > As I have stated before to Philip and have documented as a non-goal for = Casual packages, I am not concerned with maintaining strict conformance = to existing default command bindings. In documenting Casual, I have = tried to make clear that the binding choices I've made are opinionated. = I am happy to rationalize this but before doing so, if it is celebrated = that Emacs allows for arbitrary binding of commands, then are my binding = choices a block for review? More directly, if it is a requirement for Casual to maintain strict = conformance to existing default command bindings to be published on = NonGNU ELPA, then please retract my request for review. > - I would put Casual on GNU ELPA, if possible. My reason for keeping copyright of the Casual packages is to maintain = editorial control of its design, particularly with regards to binding = assignment and menu layout. It is not clear to me that assigning = copyright to GNU ELPA will assure this. > Using `require` is redundant, and not best practice: it slows down Disclosure: I am quite new to Elisp development and am not fully = conversant with its programming conventions and implementation details. = Guidance on recommended Elisp programming convention is appreciated. I will make changes to omit the `require` statement in the documentation = and decorate all Transient menus to be autoloaded. > AFAICT, this form does nothing and can be removed. Disclosure: I am not conversant with `use-package` and do not personally = use it. A perhaps misguided thing I've done is to try to accommodate = `use-package` users with install instructions tailored for it.=20 I can remove all `use-package` instructions for the Casual packages. > The `bookmark-jump` key binding is generally useful, and should > preferably be sent as a patch to Emacs itself. For several Casual packages I have suggested different bindings to make = a mode's keymap align with the binding choices made by the Casual = Transient menu for that mode. It is not my intention to push these = binding decisions to Emacs core. > This should say which version of Emacs needs to have transient = upgraded. > If it is Emacs 29.4, then say that. Will amend the documentation to reflect this guidance. On this matter, = for Emacs 30 what version of Transient is packaged with it? Thanks again for the initial feedback.=20 All my best - Charles =E2=80=94 Charles Y. Choi, Ph.D. kickingvegas@gmail.com