From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 22:33:41 +0300 Message-ID: <634c22fb-5bf1-e30f-a598-336f36b6e89f@yandex.ru> References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <83tujbqg4j.fsf@gnu.org> <46353190-1190-495f-b15e-22980159b3ab@yandex.ru> <83y28mp0rb.fsf@gnu.org> <51a363db-fde7-791d-cf8d-98ac601d62ee@yandex.ru> <57ca4d78-2339-201d-edce-678c9b003a99@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5319"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 Cc: "Philip K." , Daniel Fleischer , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel , Stefan Monnier , Eli Zaretskii To: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 31 21:39:47 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mL9bn-0001Df-JU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 21:39:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57142 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mL9bm-00064O-Jl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:39:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49092) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mL9W0-0006sp-3U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:33:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x433.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::433]:46053) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mL9Vx-0005GK-Ng; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:33:47 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x433.google.com with SMTP id n5so769597wro.12; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:33:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xqEmSMlXeNmtmPNN1aUvWvJys/XcpJ5xM/tq8EiFF5E=; b=p3GksS5V2WBP17zg8iLk8mD8ZE05HnI3leUvK/b/btPrUfG9OKX5CjsjhCefqWfCo2 0R0gRTsV7W/6uY380BBkqY+8OyUw0gaxseRKgIh8ULtdXyK++SJ323fMJ7doGPHp7Ogy mcmWgBhyjqOBJu3TrfHZ2lRdmUS6yxlCBmbU7jjAq/1HeCV0EZLqcI5pdldCPsXtCXDr EOvm80nitVumVsW3zy06m9RLr1ljq8HC8O9llQZwHmWv+UB6D+IHzYdOvNuuyX1/crf6 SfVq18jxnHhhqaIaz1c3vMKF87guQ8SQTcKvxhIKXjYNO4DXJoo0Dv5xUGcwJyl0YsxC vinA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=xqEmSMlXeNmtmPNN1aUvWvJys/XcpJ5xM/tq8EiFF5E=; b=DrCXnZUI+8FJYjMNjxrxDTksLHeWh+tLSyqi5Jh5WxkN5jeI7LuY5QxRVzLjhbGNst /CPrPSkccJKZjoTVTZuO6LPzNmSyLSknmNJ/GOC6sc3gSeVaChW0H1W1nE4TYeEI+agv yu2r6xb/ZzQasmHKM2pSWorsMiph8cSiQQPSE4PgCbLjDTN6JgSZCyX0gtuXslxJCsl/ vIuQOnkZ+xx72s6zy/b8kaZC4Yq57+YUUwHGSC9WUXYh/dfVmA5KCGCt4lbyYebHsyZh ONI0TghZLvk29jG8lP7FBeHp3L/86nEmCt/nNNVwJUkho3KSL1DER4EpyVg4Qbh2tmk3 VVTA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53052z+odNB7nQVRzknRSsjHXbfRSqD6/VHQ8JCFM/P4fvQYKqTG tdZjgGdItg9T/rN7Xuf8KKV8gYSllN4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwCEy+40druAhwYDjH1Y4HdSIfzki1C+y2k0bO2J097xXPxoTp0HJnUPuvYI7U73wlhVNIz5A== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1b8e:: with SMTP id r14mr34317069wru.251.1630438423505; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id l1sm17094535wrb.15.2021.08.31.12.33.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:33:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::433; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x433.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -23 X-Spam_score: -2.4 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.932, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273621 Archived-At: On 31.08.2021 19:03, João Távora wrote: > I want to offer a small amount of anecdotal evidence in favor of the > recent push to Sourcehut and against the GitLab/GitHub alternatives > that are presumably favoured by you (Dmitry) and some others. FWIW, I'm really more interested in UI changes than workflow changes (my email mentioned both). A move that will at least bring us a functioning bug tracker is a plus in my book. > In recent > $DAYJOBs I worked with these two GL/GH platforms fully, using them > liberally and without restrictions. In these recent experiences the undeniable > contemporarity and newcomer friendliness of these platforms does NOT > seem to translate into quality of code, quality of discussion or any > kind of benefic developer agility in any way. That's an odd statement. First of all, why would quality of code change? Whatever linters you institute to run on a CI, can run locally as well. Quality of discussions is also on you. gitlab/github/gogs/etc give you tools to make code reviews easier, and an opportunity to attract many new contributors, but then it's on you to make them feel welcome, so that they stay around. Better "quality of code" can result from attracting strong new contributors, and looking at how, for example, bug#47711 ended up (a smart, prolific developer who has authored a number of popular third-party packages in the same area has now sworn off contributing to Emacs), or the atmosphere around Eglot, I find it hard to trust your experience here. > Again, just anecdotal > evidence which you may take for what it's worth, but in fact I believe > that the "slow", unfamiliar, peculiar, old-school whatever-you-want-to-call-them > methods used in Emacs development may in fact be "aces up our > sleeve", not just a means to appease those that have been using them > for a number of years. Sure, let's keep the barriers to contribution, both formal and informal ones. That will serve us well.