From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: Include C Manual from RMS in Emacs git, and/or release Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2024 22:07:55 +0200 Message-ID: <6302.26908703975$1733256507@news.gmane.org> References: <87ser8c230.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86ser87rut.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12981"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , jb@jeremybryant.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 03 21:08:18 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tIZBy-0003Bq-CH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 21:08:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tIZBk-0005x9-9Q; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 15:08:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tIZBh-0005wm-Kg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 15:08:01 -0500 Original-Received: from thaodan.de ([185.216.177.71]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tIZBe-000350-Uv; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 15:08:01 -0500 Original-Received: from odin (dsl-trebng12-50dc7b-49.dhcp.inet.fi [80.220.123.49]) by thaodan.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43F87D0004F; Tue, 3 Dec 2024 22:07:56 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=thaodan.de; s=mail; t=1733256476; bh=E05fj8F3Cb6sK4s+FU5bhp2f1ySDN7j7UxwYWQBWYLg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=IPpCrlAnFn32r2EHzxvl1bJYgQXaxlaYgr17CoMyEAfMqHuEznEyjVScyMfXyDWKv RnZh9w5Q95q+bjcvztVI1bvrW6BLrAWVfhi+oawaHQYqQhOiZJmSoh0k63HwXx2gPJ 7dx0VgzdxwlQ6HQ1CChKDJSTioNBqJxcEFWoEsIqW1XxRj52zfhPn1gX7UoMQwKiRQ jkWkNVYjRbrvKyjTDpFmTEIHikl2ITVdifDNx4c2IQ3VqyupxgDptyfMW5dSgAovub TazeKPpv5aN2wAay272/OrXaEBlDpL6k0sdoPv4xlnfByaiAmvNesXX5nwG7UZOyY/ MZ/DZPhT3c9GKMiKubzh1l+F8QgQmDZn8N2NXnyGgEGDKRr0ihnlwZAoP2ZkfWiPcs DO2Q/JifJs16UF5dwo0efxNq56qEQgDyHD3+mSVlNTbPq5EhQUZeEzfYjA7bEJ1Mth 7oiPHywV00UprVAVSionqmpSvg04ze9NX59zngFbTJQWkDLVC+3c/apu6Mm4E85yWo jqI/6NobCnBmIRWlWvks4GDE9+rEv8/qUca1MSnE4bSwUHaP8KKfcssIUBZuc54hXN sUCfpMTzeSohn49WOrwcRAcHj3HyEMnhIczI/ANhbv26LhMTHNkkmW41Zy1XQiDFx/ +uh9egZROFR7tOoyhCW6/QBk= In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sun, 01 Dec 2024 23:10:09 -0500") Autocrypt: addr=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEZNfpPhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdACBEmr+0xwIIHZfIDlZmm7sa+lHHSb0g9FZrN6qE6ru60JUJq w7ZybiBCaWRhciA8Ympvcm4uYmlkYXJAdGhhb2Rhbi5kZT6IlgQTFgoAPgIbAwULCQgHAgIiAgYV CgkICwIEFgIDAQIeBwIXgBYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlHF9oBQJk1/YmAhkBAAoJEFwbdKFl HF9oB9cBAJoIIGQKXm4cpap+Flxc/EGnYl0123lcEyzuduqvlDT0AQC3OlFKm/OiqJ8IMTrzJRZ8 phFssTkSrrFXnM2jm5PYDoiTBBMWCgA7FiEEUfF263VHMB6nKairXBt0oWUcX2gFAmTX6T4CGwMF CwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgcCF4AACgkQXBt0oWUcX2hbCQEAtru7kvM8hi8zo6z9ux2h K+B5xViKuo7Z8K3IXuK5ugwA+wUfKzomzdBPhfxDsqLcEziGRxoyx0Q3ld9aermBUccHtBxCasO2 cm4gQmlkYXIgPG1lQHRoYW9kYW4uZGU+iJMEExYKADsCGwMFCwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwEC HgcCF4AWIQRR8XbrdUcwHqcpqKtcG3ShZRxfaAUCZNf2FQAKCRBcG3ShZRxfaCzSAP4hZ7cSp0YN XYpcjHdsySh2MuBhhoPeLGXs+2kSiqBiOwD/TP8AgPEg/R+SI9GI9on7fBJJ0mp2IT8kZ2rhDOjg gA6IkwQTFgoAOxYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlH Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.216.177.71; envelope-from=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; helo=thaodan.de X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, INVALID_MSGID=0.568, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:326004 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > FWIW, I don't think this (IMO very useful and installed on my > > machines) manual belongs to Emacs. It should be a separate manual. > > As a general design principle, it doesn't seem to make sense to > include all GNU manuals in the Emacs distribution merely because they > are useful manuals. The idea was to relese them separately and have > them installed separately into a combined info tree. > > Why is that not working? What needs to be changed in some GNU/Linux > distros? The issues the others mentioned mainly the lack of acceptance of the format and for sometime the possibility to find info manual manly due the first problem. Some projects switched to documentation systems which don't provide anything but HTML or PDF such as e.g. Doxygen or those where the info output is available but fragile and usually not enabled due problem one. In the instance of the this specific manual it's just that it's one specific document which isn't distributed along other software which is unusual but also that it doesn't get much exposure I think. The last issue is that the license make it impossible to be distributed for some namely those which are Debian based but not solely those. Related: I package the manual for RPM based distribution below: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:Thaodan:Documentation/c-intro-and-ref I will submit the manual to openSUSE unless some other issue comes up.