From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Mendler Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Indicate better the current use of the echo area / minibuffer [was: Controlling Isearch from minibuffer] Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 16:41:10 +0200 Message-ID: <61c85b87-98f2-1fa2-4e0a-aba40b080049@mendler.net> References: <83y2cj171z.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25598"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "acm@muc.de" , "kevin.legouguec@gmail.com" , "arstoffel@gmail.com" , "monnier@iro.umontreal.ca" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Drew Adams , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 13 16:42:10 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lhCXS-0006Xg-AJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 13 May 2021 16:42:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35968 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhCXQ-0004ra-5f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 13 May 2021 10:42:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38866) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhCWt-0004Cd-Bj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 May 2021 10:41:35 -0400 Original-Received: from server.qxqx.de ([2a01:4f8:121:346::180]:44511 helo=mail.qxqx.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhCWq-00054h-Pd; Thu, 13 May 2021 10:41:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=qxqx.de; s=mail1392553390; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To: MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=UXAiQ1uwvIepfIwyR8Z1/yGM4z3BnkFM7byRxjWJ1uk=; b=q4FsT8Y9t9tMSSOc4M2dzuYRg9 0g2Iaf4MyM7PuBxc2/QA7kUhkkyPwCpy26MayB8vkSuICXmgXqVvzTFZp0Xp+a0BfWNY/YkTl/oEj dadhwA08YDSwZP6vxNlOxm/f3CPE2KrsK043sdYPhvPaxCou3ExOjl0NZfX2Bs4RRP+Q=; In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f8:121:346::180; envelope-from=daniel@mendler.net; helo=mail.qxqx.de X-Spam_score_int: -41 X-Spam_score: -4.2 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:269243 Archived-At: On 5/13/21 4:11 PM, Drew Adams wrote: >>> As I've said, I, for one, think it's good that Isearch >>> doesn't use the minibuffer. But I think it might help >>> if there were a visual indication of some kind, to >>> distinguish Isearching from use of the minibuffer, and >>> Isearching from (other) use of the echo area. >> >> There is such an indication: the cursor is not in the mini-window. > > Yes, there is indeed an "indication of some kind". > > ABut as the Subject says, this is about _better_ > indicating such things - being _more_ helpful. Personally, I would not like to use such a colorful "subtle" indication in the echo area. To me this seems more like an implementation detail, which should not be visible to the user. The echo area/minibuffer distinction comes up from time to time in discussions with new users. I know that I had been confused for a while with the Isearch behavior. The Isearch use of the echo area is unexpected. Users expect to enter a search string into a separate input form as is common in many other programs. In Emacs this input form is the minibuffer. I would welcome the changes by Augusto. The minibuffer-controlled Isearch makes entering the search string more robust with regards to various editing commands as mentioned before by Kévin Le Gouguec. There exists the ctrlf package on MELPA which also uses the minibuffer, but it feels hardly justified to install an extra package only to get a minibuffer-controlled search mode. I also don't want to replace such a tightly integrated component like Isearch with an external package. If a minibuffer mode can be added to Isearch with small effort and in a reasonably clean way, why not do that? Daniel