From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: How to poll the users Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 05:42:49 +0300 Message-ID: <6189a667-056e-eaa0-e153-357f2d39fa5e@yandex.ru> References: <87k12bdgx7.fsf@yahoo.com> <87a736wyed.fsf@yahoo.com> <2F7AD0CB-FF83-4244-BD77-7E0460A77762@icloud.com> <87wo6a7abj.fsf@yahoo.com> <87o8rlbnic.fsf@yahoo.com> <45098d13-2770-4a19-6f82-b22276eb51c8@yandex.ru> <877dy91mb0.fsf@yahoo.com> <0ce06d95-0593-bc55-983f-6b6601503a1a@yandex.ru> <38f07534-f9db-64eb-5256-e73bcebafef4@yandex.ru> <8e4a5b46-f9a6-400e-f573-f73b419e229f@yandex.ru> <18a14ae4-66da-496b-8929-355e8833ecb2@default> <1eb74697-c7ce-47fc-886d-96a1d2ca01d1@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="66265"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, pcr910303@icloud.com, seb@k-7.ch, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org, Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 27 04:44:02 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jStkY-000H6W-3k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 04:44:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51122 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jStkX-0008RV-5U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:44:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35572) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jStjT-0007ku-0p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:42:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jStjS-0007OL-Ds for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:42:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42c]:37866) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jStjR-0007NB-Vk; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:42:54 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id k1so18726476wrx.4; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 19:42:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tW/opHRsVx8yEyc2CXC1auAYr3r3cf3bFfU/3G3xw2Q=; b=CPjeyNfSyV6ltQpsTQitkMqPI/SbH7G+VAV8jxV1PiIyOBSCBlUcsRYuMY6gtokRFO zHWBJ744p/3RYf9C62KhYHA29He1oaGuz99gvZPHVvFjzxcAq9UPKWNDRPogzoS6TcJ4 k8wWb88iYvnbhL7FRxE/WAbX0gV5bOMR6abZiIPHdKMrCODi4y8wIBf/sCQy7H6L2nnp KTJ97iE5B7wEu9Ubt2mx0eliXNFDgIVI68P/c5yOpegeLZu34FC61uyTiXaqNsadUFvY GCgHe/dlxmLMhQ0C913rE2iQsXF/J+yMTTMkvKcfLCSEhrpj5hrxYcYkWL/bLL087dzg qxnQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tW/opHRsVx8yEyc2CXC1auAYr3r3cf3bFfU/3G3xw2Q=; b=OQaMXLS7ucs6+k3wEd+G9DijaUROtJI86+1qQmjqmO9W1d2jDV/M/crNTiGXVh1R3z wlTWwwfHeSWlxPgph95n3AbbIRX1n0i8rjfxtl0oKj8ksVAtKwFsmUvBerg90fh4lnb/ 7QBOAMcr9Y2nymH2351r9vF8iuvZ9l5bw6IIKuzMfNRKoLWX2iZv0QCjj38900kVXfw3 9E6t2YNlQYH3M49N6zF0JStsCv5J/4fPRwFVNuGJPm8HR7Irlh8GF4Hv2Pb7eg77LQXR 2ig1sN96BI2vhCAJTltk8aIDji9TdXqeNhPu6ipoNf5Bmbno5ZTs4lHCNnjTRh9aexsD vOsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubEIt3pN0xWJHyg9Iy+osjxJfC89CL/rZ/0PT/73qzBu/ZYcVnR 8R+MTigVNi10SnPO+eyd+Vp1X3Y39J0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJYsuaIK9zf0Ttcbp4lpuCKMloz/TdCz7ROf3MR+4atZx+1WtfjZ83hSXDzeght+FN8ItdrJQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:49c3:: with SMTP id t3mr23393160wrs.94.1587955371121; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 19:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id k23sm13300771wmi.46.2020.04.26.19.42.49 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 26 Apr 2020 19:42:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42c; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42c.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::42c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247884 Archived-At: On 27.04.2020 05:22, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > I don't see how all of those downsides couldn't be > > mitigated, providing a GNU site or other means to > > serve as single collection point, echoing point > > (echoing current counts, text suggestions, etc.), > > and even providing a discussion venue. > > I think we should make sure polls do NOT turn into discussions. > Discussions would multiply the bulk of messages and we would not be > able to digest them. Only if we use the mailbox approach. And the downside of disallowing a discussion is missing out on valuable insights. > Most of you are brainstorming about what we could do. > I have actually done polls several times. With the tools contemporary websites provide, polling is trivial. Many people have done it, myself included. > Having each poll dump messages into its own file was reliable and easy > to set up. It takes a few minutes to set that up. It may take an hour > or two to write the posting. It may take a few hours to study the > responses. So let's not worry about the few minutes. Can you digest, say, 2000 free-form emails in a few hours? And then summarize all expressed opinions accurately for the other developers to understand the results? Or if you receive only 20 emails, can you have any confidence that the received feedback describes the community with any sort of accuracy? And in this particular case, numbers are important as well. The arguments for and against indent-tabs-mode have been made numerous times (including the TabsAreEvil wiki page Drew has linked to). What we don't know well, on the other hand, is how many of our users actually use tabs for indentation in practice. If the fraction is minuscule, then changing the default value really shouldn't hurt.