From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Reini Urban Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Preview: portable dumper Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 23:07:02 +0100 Message-ID: <6149F8B3-7059-4D77-8AA5-F11A2F76D39C@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1480562890 17218 195.159.176.226 (1 Dec 2016 03:28:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 03:28:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: eliz@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 01 04:28:06 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cCI2X-0003W0-Ub for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2016 04:28:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47848 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCI2b-000735-NI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 22:28:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55763) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCD20-0003US-4b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 17:07:13 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCD1z-0003kV-47 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 17:07:12 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wm0-x22b.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b]:38117) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCD1u-0003is-76; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 17:07:06 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wm0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id f82so231573715wmf.1; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 14:07:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id:cc:to :mime-version; bh=LxI9+qv18br2ZUBMAxbmsJfEORJoSvR+B7L0BoBnA7s=; b=Boya5fQLqETXc0CivuGN1Jd9frrOaBFCyLfwf+kp60oGWi/TbanhsMQ4sLNtSAx3T1 mMVYsZmqZ1CH+Vc2c5I4Ka0J0dW1qXlm+rN4jVUBduMUEygOeNHevWAQoaDji2Gx7IFI VWfOy6maB0t3gmgBgYbVrpGBpDvQOnKh7IvAIx8uTWAy18CiltRZFAeUdtY9k7qnPmoP bAqU2lidLMaXRw9sRAMP1VxRmU1QvFTxL+R1JdeREXnRDTFDx3pcep//3wsl4ZDM91fh orVKTEwsTCZDosvq4JdvL/VONzyJgIXpWyyhrB7KZXbsimd3aIHSAgIik7FVXpvipFfZ oScw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date :message-id:cc:to:mime-version; bh=LxI9+qv18br2ZUBMAxbmsJfEORJoSvR+B7L0BoBnA7s=; b=myYPcdlGD4AZdxAvUM3My8vREDrebZkwQRoybcpPELlqln/2IqYl6HTwkXnPwobnZM 86B51VKJZ8COYDuPXuLnR/GFPWWxYj2ZqVpqyVDAno76jHOwD+Z5aL0optztQO9VMb7O v8pHX38RUbC/69qkFMY7gCx5FTsr02ooF9yOka+RMY4gYct1P8EJbeHFk10yGwBhIaQ7 5v5llaX8r8Yk722HD0u1JW3tKgF36DoYOPSPHoGZO8VhZfARq4kL8OutbcB9ZrKk83JM FvrVdukkvIBcPNriBHzU/IA9MCd0aefdiRCaQ1jJLsyQcnHkYuGexOs3GIrMHhrUciX1 7CnA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC01HjaWRQdGyQ+U4CRgwatG750COOT0UiKDx8PGuFen8z/XJ+tkmX+VjHEQtZMRpBA== X-Received: by 10.28.191.130 with SMTP id o2mr32161203wmi.97.1480543624632; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 14:07:04 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.2.144] (ipservice-092-208-168-208.092.208.pools.vodafone-ip.de. [92.208.168.208]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i10sm75028588wjd.15.2016.11.30.14.07.03 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 30 Nov 2016 14:07:03 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 22:26:16 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:209855 Archived-At: > > C programmers are a dying breed > I don't agree, as C is an essential component of GNU/Linux and is=20 > robustly represented in the practical and research programming=20 > communities. (For what it's worth, C's popularity is ranked #7 in PyPL=20= > and #2 in TIOBE.) >When did you last try to hire a C or C++ programmer? >As another data point, just look in the logs at the names of people >who make C-level changes, and count them. >I didn't say I like this, but leading a project to be viable in the >future needs to look at the reality, not at our wishful thinking. Maybe I should tell you, that interestingly Emacs is not the only = project affected by this glibc/dumper dispute. I added the stone-old unexec patches for perl to my cperl fork, to be = able to dump/compile perl scripts to native binaries the fast way. Improved dumpers are here: = https://github.com/perl11/cperl/commits/feature/gh176-unexec=20 I guess I=E2=80=99m the only one who touched this code in the last = decades, nobody in emacs and nobody in perl. Mostly unified error handling and a few darwin segment instabilities. It = is very fragile to use with a static library, but ok as dynamic library. = Emacs uses the dumper in the main exe, not in a library. Solaris is the = easiest to use. So I know a little bit of the troubles they are talking about here. = Dan's portable dumper would be nice to have, XEmacs had this decades = ago, but it never made it over here. Wonder why :) So looking at the new pdump, it really is horrible. I don't think I want = to do that. I'll rather add a proper static malloc to cperl, such = ptmalloc3, which is better than glibc malloc, i.e. ptmalloc2, anyway. = They never switched to the better version, because it had more memory = overhead. And I really can make use of the arena support there. Emacs = should try the same. Much easier and much faster. Good bye glibc. Reini Urban rurban@cpan.org