From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gtk patch version 3, part 1 Date: 04 Jan 2003 01:48:19 +0100 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <5xu1gpu4do.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> References: <200301011944.h01Jim0U011400@stubby.bodenonline.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1041637765 15268 80.91.224.249 (3 Jan 2003 23:49:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:49:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18UbYs-0003xS-00 for ; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 00:49:10 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18Ubbi-0006WC-00 for ; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 00:52:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18UbYu-0005Wf-01 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 18:49:12 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18UbYc-0005WL-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 18:48:54 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18UbYa-0005WA-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 18:48:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.filanet.dk ([195.215.206.179]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18UbYZ-0005W6-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 18:48:51 -0500 Original-Received: from kfs2.cua.dk.cua.dk (unknown [10.1.82.3]) by mail.filanet.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6858A7C017; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 00:48:50 +0100 (CET) Original-To: bob@rattlesnake.com In-Reply-To: Original-Lines: 61 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:10446 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:10446 "Robert J. Chassell" writes: > Do you mean "that the user can include into his machine" or "something > that might be on the users machine already"? > > I mean something that ought to be on the user's machine > (though any given user may or may not have installed it, of course). > > Yes. If it is not on your machine, you may not be able to access it: Well if it is not on your machine -- you definitely cannot access it without accessing the Internet. I don't argue that if there is a document on your -- and everyone else's -- local machines that can be referenced, we should do that. But I really don't see how we can assume that a specific file is always available. Some systems even come without man-pages ... If we cannot rely on having a local file, we have two options: - include the necessary documentation in the emacs distribution [meaning that we may have to (re)write that documentation ourselves], or - reference an existing document (in whatever format it is available in) with the appropriate URL. The first option still costs you something (when downloading and storing emacs on your local machine), and it may be time-consuming to write the necessary documentation. The second option has the potential risks of non-availability that you mention, and it *may* also costs a few cents to access the URL (although flat-rate Internet access is getting pretty common in many places). IMHO, referencing a URL is at least as good as referencing a local file which we cannot be sure is available (or don't know where it's located even if it exists)... Having said that, I agree that Texinfo is a superior format for online docs! > Yes: please remember, when people look up a reference, you have to > think of them as being in `encyclopedia mode'. They want the > information. A link to another document on their machine is likely to > be perceived as a hinderance. If it is a link which they can click on with mouse-2 and have it opened in an emacs buffer, in a browser or in some other viewer, I think most users will be happy with that. > (A link to a document that they cannot > get to, because it is on another machine and they are off the > Internet, is likely to be perceived as a failure of the > documentation.) I disagree! Regarding a user's inability to access the Internet as a documentation failure seems quite far-fetched to me. -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk