Updating org-mode in Emacs

Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi,

First of all my congratulations and thanks to the maintainers
and main developers for putting together the Emacs 23.1 release.

I remember reading a mail on this list (by Chong?), stating
that we can commit new features again to the trunk, but that
we are supposed to ask first.

So:  I want to install a massive update to Org-mode, in a few days.

Can I do that?

Thanks.

- Carsten

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Stefan Monnier]

> First of all my congratulations and thanks to the maintainers
> and main developers for putting together the Emacs 23.1 release.

> I remember reading a mail on this list (by Chong?), stating
> that we can commit new features again to the trunk, but that
> we are supposed to ask first.

> So:  I want to install a massive update to Org-mode, in a few days.

> Can I do that?

Yes, without any problem.


        Stefan

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[CHENG Gao]

git pull shows org-export-latex.el is renamed to org-latex.el, but
Makefile.in is not revised to reflect this change, thus building fails.

-- 
Ubi bene, ibi patria

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: CHENG Gao <chenggao@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:37:04 +0800
> 
> git pull shows org-export-latex.el is renamed to org-latex.el, but
> Makefile.in is not revised to reflect this change, thus building fails.

Should be fixed now, thanks.

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Glenn Morris]

Carsten Dominik wrote:

> So:  I want to install a massive update to Org-mode, in a few days.

Once again, this has clobbered existing changes made to Org in the
Emacs CVS. For example, my changes to org-rmail. This seems to happen
every time Org gets updated.

I don't have the heart to investigate further exactly what may have
been lost in other files, since the changes appear as a single, 40000
line diff, with a single commmon, massive CVS commit log that just
duplicates the ChangeLog. I'm aware that this is the commit style
recommended by some people, but I find it unreadable with CVS.


Also, Daniel M German (listed as an org-protocol author) does not seem
to have a copyright assignment in copyright.list (although I am not
sure if that file is always definitive these days).

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Stefan Monnier]

>> git pull shows org-export-latex.el is renamed to org-latex.el, but
>> Makefile.in is not revised to reflect this change, thus building fails.

> Should be fixed now, thanks.

Let me just here say that I hate this ELCFILES business.  Too much
trouble too little benefit.


        Stefan

ELCFILES [was Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs]

[Glenn Morris]

Stefan Monnier wrote:

> Let me just here say that I hate this ELCFILES business.  Too much
> trouble too little benefit.

Take it out if you feel strongly about it, or replace it with
something better.

It was the only way I could find to allow parallel byte-compiling that
was compatible with portable Makefile syntax. I certainly appreciate
the speed-up that allows.

The only trouble it causes AFAIK is an obvious build failure when a
lisp file is (re)moved or renamed (which is infrequent) without a
corresponding update of Makefile.in.

Re: ELCFILES [was Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs]

[Andreas Schwab]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> It was the only way I could find to allow parallel byte-compiling that
> was compatible with portable Makefile syntax. I certainly appreciate
> the speed-up that allows.

Parallel byte-compiling without proper dependencies following
require/load does not work anyway.  You can get random build failures
when one process is writing the same elc file while another one is
reading it.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Carsten Dominik]

On Aug 7, 2009, at 9:02 PM, Glenn Morris wrote:

> Carsten Dominik wrote:
>
>> So:  I want to install a massive update to Org-mode, in a few days.
>
> Once again, this has clobbered existing changes made to Org in the
> Emacs CVS. For example, my changes to org-rmail. This seems to happen
> every time Org gets updated.

I do try *very* hard to find all changes that are made in Emacs
and to integrate them into my code base.  Obviously I am failing
to do this right.  Maybe I should stop updating the package in Emacs.

- Carsten

>
> I don't have the heart to investigate further exactly what may have
> been lost in other files, since the changes appear as a single, 40000
> line diff, with a single commmon, massive CVS commit log that just
> duplicates the ChangeLog. I'm aware that this is the commit style
> recommended by some people, but I find it unreadable with CVS.
>
>
> Also, Daniel M German (listed as an org-protocol author) does not seem
> to have a copyright assignment in copyright.list (although I am not
> sure if that file is always definitive these days).

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Carsten Dominik]

On Aug 7, 2009, at 9:02 PM, Glenn Morris wrote:

> Carsten Dominik wrote:
>
>> So:  I want to install a massive update to Org-mode, in a few days.
>
> Once again, this has clobbered existing changes made to Org in the
> Emacs CVS. For example, my changes to org-rmail. This seems to happen
> every time Org gets updated.
>
> I don't have the heart to investigate further exactly what may have
> been lost in other files, since the changes appear as a single, 40000
> line diff, with a single commmon, massive CVS commit log that just
> duplicates the ChangeLog. I'm aware that this is the commit style
> recommended by some people, but I find it unreadable with CVS.

What am I supposed to do if I cannot commit to Emacs for a long time
because of feature freeze and pretest, and if in the mean time the
changes accumulate to this amount?  I don't know a different way,
most certainly not using CVS.

Also, what else should I put into the commit message?  A long
time ago it was explained to me that this is *exactly* what should be
in there.

- Carsten

Re: ELCFILES [was Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs]

[Dan Nicolaescu]

Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:

  > Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:
  > 
  > > It was the only way I could find to allow parallel byte-compiling that
  > > was compatible with portable Makefile syntax. I certainly appreciate
  > > the speed-up that allows.
  > 
  > Parallel byte-compiling without proper dependencies following
  > require/load does not work anyway.  You can get random build failures
  > when one process is writing the same elc file while another one is
  > reading it.

Then can't we just not read elc files when byte compiling, just read the
original elisp?  If this is not acceptable all the time, we could at
least do it when bootstrapping...  Didn't someone mention patch to
implement this behavior?

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Chong Yidong]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

>> Once again, this has clobbered existing changes made to Org in the
>> Emacs CVS. For example, my changes to org-rmail. This seems to happen
>> every time Org gets updated.
>
> What am I supposed to do if I cannot commit to Emacs for a long time
> because of feature freeze and pretest, and if in the mean time the
> changes accumulate to this amount?  I don't know a different way,
> most certainly not using CVS.

If you don't track Emacs CVS, we can try sending patches to you.  When
merging into the Emacs repository, you can avoid clobbering changes by
scanning lisp/org/ChangeLog for changes introduced since the last update
(there aren't many of these, since you do most of the commits).

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
> Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:52:32 -0400
> Cc: Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> When merging into the Emacs repository, you can avoid clobbering
> changes by scanning lisp/org/ChangeLog for changes introduced since
> the last update

It would be more reliable to scan the output of "cvs log".

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Stefan Monnier]

> I do try *very* hard to find all changes that are made in Emacs
> and to integrate them into my code base.  Obviously I am failing
> to do this right.  Maybe I should stop updating the package in Emacs.

Or maybe you should try some other way (it shouldn't be hard): how do
you do it so far?


        Stefan

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Stefan Monnier]

>> When merging into the Emacs repository, you can avoid clobbering
>> changes by scanning lisp/org/ChangeLog for changes introduced since
>> the last update

> It would be more reliable to scan the output of "cvs log".

It's a lot more reliable and less work to use CVS (or Git) and let the
tool do the merge for you.


        Stefan

Re: ELCFILES [was Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs]

[Ken Raeburn]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 03:03, Andreas Schwab wrote:
> Parallel byte-compiling without proper dependencies following
> require/load does not work anyway.  You can get random build failures
> when one process is writing the same elc file while another one is
> reading it.

I think I ran into that failure once in recent months...
It could be dealt with by writing the compiled version to a temporary  
name and renaming it into place once it's written.  Any other load  
running in the meantime will see the old .elc file, older than the .el  
file, or maybe there won't be a .elc file, and either way, we can have  
the .el source loaded instead.

Ken

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Bastien]

Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> writes:

> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> Once again, this has clobbered existing changes made to Org in the
>>> Emacs CVS. For example, my changes to org-rmail. This seems to happen
>>> every time Org gets updated.
>>
>> What am I supposed to do if I cannot commit to Emacs for a long time
>> because of feature freeze and pretest, and if in the mean time the
>> changes accumulate to this amount?  I don't know a different way,
>> most certainly not using CVS.
>
> If you don't track Emacs CVS, we can try sending patches to you.  

FWIW, I track Emacs CVS and forward patches to Carsten.

But, pride set aside, I could easily be replaced by a simple mechanism
that would send emails to Emacs maintainers when someone modifies a file
they are maintaining.  This has already been requested long ago.  Will
this be doable with bzr?  I know git has a simple hook system that lets
you do this.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[CHENG Gao]

*On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 06:41:31 +0800
* Also sprach Bastien <bastienguerry@googlemail.com>:

> But, pride set aside, I could easily be replaced by a simple mechanism
> that would send emails to Emacs maintainers when someone modifies a file
> they are maintaining.  This has already been requested long ago.  Will
> this be doable with bzr?  I know git has a simple hook system that lets
> you do this.


Maybe BundleBuggy[1] is the right tool. Bazaar(-NG) uses it, you can see
it running here[2].

Its website says

,----
| It works by scanning email from a mailing list, looking for patches.
| When it recognizes a patch, it adds it to the web listing of merge
| requests. Designated users can vote on whether approve the merge
| request, either via the web UI or by email.
`----



Footnotes: 
[1]  http://code.aaronbentley.com/bundlebuggy/

[2]  http://bundlebuggy.aaronbentley.com/

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Glenn Morris]

Bastien wrote:

> FWIW, I track Emacs CVS and forward patches to Carsten.
>
> But, pride set aside, I could easily be replaced by a simple mechanism
> that would send emails to Emacs maintainers when someone modifies a file
> they are maintaining.  This has already been requested long ago.

If you want such a service, you should open a Savannah help ticket.

AFAIK, mh-e has had such a thing for the past 4 years:

http://www.mail-archive.com/emacs-devel@gnu.org/msg09797.html
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-01/msg00299.html

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Glenn Morris]

Glenn Morris wrote:

> If you want such a service, you should open a Savannah help ticket.
>
> AFAIK, mh-e has had such a thing for the past 4 years:

Oh, I see this is not a new suggestion.

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2008-11/msg00878.html

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Bastien]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Bastien wrote:
>
>> FWIW, I track Emacs CVS and forward patches to Carsten.
>>
>> But, pride set aside, I could easily be replaced by a simple mechanism
>> that would send emails to Emacs maintainers when someone modifies a file
>> they are maintaining.  This has already been requested long ago.
>
> If you want such a service, you should open a Savannah help ticket.

I just did, thanks for the idea.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Updating org-mode in Emacs

[Bastien]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Glenn Morris wrote:
>
>> If you want such a service, you should open a Savannah help ticket.
>>
>> AFAIK, mh-e has had such a thing for the past 4 years:
>
> Oh, I see this is not a new suggestion.
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2008-11/msg00878.html

Actually, we have a system that forwards changes in emacs/lisp/org/* to
Carsten, but it's just a workaround, it would be nice to have something
more stable.

Best,

-- 
 Bastien