From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Martin Stjernholm Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.cc-mode.general,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Blessing cl functions Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 01:31:37 +0200 Sender: cc-mode-help-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: <5bllsj6nqe.fsf_-_@lister.roxen.com> References: <5bekzd29w7.fsf@lister.roxen.com> <5b7k547aov.fsf@lister.roxen.com> <5b1xv83wlr.fsf@lister.roxen.com> <5bfzjmgi2q.fsf@lister.roxen.com> <3F4FA043.7080602@yahoo.com> <87bru8caup.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp> <5bu17zc4q7.fsf@lister.roxen.com> Reply-To: bug-cc-mode@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1064100807 8569 80.91.224.253 (20 Sep 2003 23:33:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:33:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bug-cc-mode@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: cc-mode-help-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Sun Sep 21 01:33:24 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.sourceforge.net ([66.35.250.206] helo=sc8-sf-list2.sourceforge.net) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A0rEC-000447-00 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 01:33:24 +0200 Original-Received: from sc8-sf-list1-b.sourceforge.net ([10.3.1.13] helo=sc8-sf-list1.sourceforge.net) by sc8-sf-list2.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 1A0rEQ-0008IZ-00; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:33:38 -0700 Original-Received: from sc8-sf-mx1-b.sourceforge.net ([10.3.1.11] helo=sc8-sf-mx1.sourceforge.net) by sc8-sf-list1.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Cipher TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 1A0rCw-0003CK-00 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:32:06 -0700 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by sc8-sf-mx1.sourceforge.net with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.22) id 1A0rCv-0006Vy-C9 for cc-mode-help@lists.sourceforge.net; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:32:05 -0700 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A0rCY-0007Pf-7R for bug-cc-mode@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:31:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.22) id 1A0rCc-0006Br-PA for bug-cc-mode@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:31:47 -0400 Original-Received: from [194.52.182.190] (helo=mail.roxen.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A0rCc-00066s-Ap; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:31:46 -0400 Original-Received: by mail.roxen.com (Postfix, from userid 52) id A86F199CA; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 01:31:38 +0200 (MEST) Original-Received: from lister.roxen.com (lister.roxen.com [194.52.182.147]) by mail.roxen.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6387099C2; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 01:31:36 +0200 (MEST) Original-Received: from mast by lister.roxen.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1A0rCT-00032b-00; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 01:31:37 +0200 Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:22:13 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.090016 (Oort Gnus v0.16) Emacs/20.7 (gnu/linux) X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) Errors-To: cc-mode-help-admin@lists.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: cc-mode-help@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9-sf.net Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Bug reports, feature requests, and general talk about CC Mode. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 01:31:37 +0200 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.cc-mode.general:807 gmane.emacs.devel:16517 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:16517 [Continuing an old thread here.] Richard Stallman wrote: > I am willing to consider a small number of functions for inclusion > as standard parts of Emacs. I don't have time to consider a large > number, and I can't agree to them without considering them. Then please take a look at as many as you are able to. I think it bears repeating though, that the lack of such fundamental tools continually hampers development in the small scale. Adding just a few functions every year means almost unbearably slow progress in this regard. > I do not like the Common Lisp style of using keyword arguments > for many common functions. For functions that take a whole set of optional arguments I can't think of any better alternative; keywords are at least better than position-based argument passing. However they do incur higher runtime overhead, but that should be possible to avoid with macros. Common special cases can also be optimized to C level implementations. I can devote some time to it if that would help matters. > I basically do not have a very high opinion of many of the decisions > that were made in Common Lisp. The reasons for going with incompatible solutions would have to be pretty strong, though, since the cl functions are de-facto used in many packages (also those distributed separately). Nonconflicting names would be a necessity to begin with, but even then one has to consider the added confusion with two different libraries for the same thing. The new library would have to be a lot better designwise to motivate its existence, and when it comes to such basic stuff like this I can't see how it can be done much differently. > Adding the feature for iterating over multiple lists to mapc and > mapcar is fine with me. I left that out only because I did not want > to do the work implement it. If you want to write this, and do a > clean job, by all means do it. I could do that, especially if it would mean that the other mapping functions (maplist, mapl, mapcan, mapcon, some, every, notany, and notevery) got in too. None of those have keyword arguments, anyway. (I probably have to extend my copyright assignment agreement first, since it only covers CC Mode currently.) ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf