From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Delete variables obsolete since Emacs 23 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5be6fae2-c2e7-45d8-ba24-b5c40f131b82@default> References: <38b4c392-0a02-4505-87df-74d29e872ee7@default> <(message> <17> <2020> <07:20:57> <-0700> <(PDT))> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6409"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ghe@sdf.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jeff Norden Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 18 18:25:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k84Q8-0001ZU-32 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/08/18 12:13:41 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -63 X-Spam_score: -6.4 X-Spam_bar: ------ X-Spam_report: (-6.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:253956 Archived-At: > > My only request is to not remove `interactive-p'. > > My request is to please leave it "obsolete". >=20 > The elisp manual says: >=20 > You can mark a named function as "obsolete", meaning that it may be > removed at some point in the future. This causes Emacs to warn that = the > function is obsolete whenever it byte-compiles code containing that > function, and whenever it displays the documentation for that functio= n. > In all other respects, an obsolete function behaves like any other > function. >=20 > The phrase "may be removed" seems a bit vague. Would "will be removed" o= r > "will probably be removed" be more accurate? Not in my opinion. I mean that shouldn't be what we mean by "obsolete" or "deprecated". Normally it means just what the text says: there's no guarantee that it won't be removed. In general (e.g. outside Emacs), there's no obligation to ever remove something that's been deprecated (is obsolete). In general, something that's deprecated is still supported. But it is not under active development, and there may not be a lot of energy spent on fixing its bugs. > From where I sit, it seems plausible that someone might view interactive-= p > as just an obsolete way of writing (called-interactively-p 'interactive), > which exists for backward compatibility, and would be available long term= . > It seems that the last part is a mis-interpretation of the intent of mark= ing > it as obsolete. That's exactly the interpretation I'm looking for. I don't care that it's deprecated, as long as it's still there. > The fact that emacs maintains backward compatibility so well is one of th= e > features that I appreciate the most. Indeed. https://medium.com/@steve.yegge/dear-google-cloud-your-deprecation-policy-i= s-killing-you-ee7525dc05dc > But, in this case, the fact that interactive-p > has been obsolete for so long may give the > impression that it would continue to be available. I don't care about either possible impression. I'm saying it makes sense to leave it alone. There's no reason to remove it. (And no reason has yet been given.) "It's obsolete" is not a reason to remove it. We're not removing (called-interactively-p 'interactive). Why not? > If the underlying fact is that virtually > all functions marked as obsolete will > eventually be removed Not a fact. Not in my book, anyway. And certainly not in the world outside Emacs. (Unless by "eventually" you include the disappearance of the planet or sun. ;-)) =20 > Also, it might be worthwhile for the elisp manual to mention one other > difference that obsolete functions have. When an interactive command is > obsolete, it no longer appears as a possible completion when you press > [tab] while entering a command-name after M-x. That's not true either. Perhaps you're suggesting that such behavior should be implemented? (FWIW, my opinion is no.)