From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [PATCH] sequence manipulation functions Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 09:22:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5b291683-3fb7-4faa-a7f8-c7176a22e2a4@default> References: <87oasmmwzt.fsf@gmail.com> <87bnolslph.fsf@gmail.com> <87zjc2dic0.fsf@gmail.com> <87ioimtzu0.fsf@gmail.com> <87lhngcnrc.fsf@gmail.com> <87k330cj3u.fsf@gmail.com> <87ioikcf39.fsf@gmail.com> <87h9y4c93e.fsf@gmail.com> <87389oggab.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <87tx23sxah.fsf@gmail.com> <6902490d-9011-401f-8ae5-99181d808e06@default> <87y4re746j.fsf@gmail.com> <8761efi63c.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1416158596 7508 80.91.229.3 (16 Nov 2014 17:23:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:23:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Leo Liu , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Nicolas Petton , Bozhidar Batsov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 16 18:23:09 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xq3XY-0008Bz-VN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 18:23:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44537 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xq3XY-0007gF-IP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:23:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59921) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xq3XN-0007U1-Cl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:23:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xq3XE-0002aZ-LS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:22:57 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:20291) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xq3XE-0002aR-FG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:22:48 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sAGHMkGP014880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:22:47 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sAGHMjRc017366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:22:46 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0012.oracle.com (abhmp0012.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sAGHMjgA017363; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:22:45 GMT In-Reply-To: <8761efi63c.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:177326 Archived-At: > > I=E2=80=99m fine with leaning more in the CL direction as long as this > > is done by promoting some cl-lib functions to the standard > > Emacs library. People shouldn=E2=80=99t have to require the entire > > `cl-lib` just for the same of a handful of sequence functions. > > > > I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s normal that pretty much every Emacs = package > > depends on their `cl-lib` or the third party lib `dash.el`. > > Emacs hackers obviously feel that the standard library is > > lacking and it should be improved somehow (preferably now > > instead of next decade). >=20 > I agree. Promoting some sequence-related cl-lib functions would > also be perfectly fine with me. I have no problem with adopting > CL names, but I do feel that the current standard library is > lacking. I am generally in favor of moving Emacs Lisp closer to Common Lisp. So I too think that this would be a good change. That said, I don't mind having to use `require' or having such things be autoloaded. Perhaps further factoring of the CL Elisp files would mean that less code would need to be loaded to use such functions (dunno). As BB said: > > People shouldn=E2=80=99t have to require the entire `cl-lib` just > > for the same of a handful of sequence functions. I think that one of the reasons that I wouldn't have suggested including such functions in Emacs Lisp in the past was that it did not really support lexical binding. And dynamic binding makes extensive use of higher-order functions problematic. But we have lexical binding now (thanks mainly to Stefan), so that particular caveat is no longer applicable.