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From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: "'Lennart Borgman'" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>
Cc: mathias@mnet-mail.de, 'David Kastrup' <dak@gnu.org>,
	'Stefan Monnier' <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: RE: Tweaking t-m-m to make room for d-s-m
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 14:18:22 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5F1D87251C98412EADC1187ABFCC3E8D@us.oracle.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <e01d8a51003261318v341a2af1k6ee5ac1cb093fbd1@mail.gmail.com>

> >> Couldn't C-x SPC be used to activate the region (without changing
> >> point and mark)? It seems unused and is easier to type then
> >> Alan's suggestion. -- Mathias
> >
> > C-z
> 
> I think that would be a very bad idea since C-z seems to be used as
> undo in most editing environments.

And C-z is currently `suspend-frame' in Emacs. So what? Why is one conflict over
what C-z means better than the other? Or would you forbid Emacs from using C-z
altogether? No, I know, you would prefer C-z and all the rest to be CUA by
default. ;-)

CUA is so very different from Emacs that I see no need to consider such
conflicts. Emacs does not sync with CUA's C-c, C-x, C-v, ESC,... Why should we
treat CUA's C-z with special respect?

Arguments that Emacs should do something by default _only_ because vi (e.g.
Viper) or CUA does it are non-starters, with me at least.

Wrt delete-selection mode, I was clear that I would not support it as the
default for Emacs if the only reason were that new users expect it. I explicitly
cited CUA as a counter-example. I support d-s-mode mainly because I think it is
useful for Emacs users generally, and certainly not just because it coincides
with what new users expect. Not so, CUA.

There is a logic behind the CUA keys, yes. Those who came up with CUA didn't do
so without thought. But it is a logic that takes as its starting point that the
set of editing operations is just about summed up by those few operations: cut,
copy, paste, undo. Under such an assumption it is not a bad idea to put all of
those frequently used operations together within easy reach.

But Emacs's use of keyboard keys blows the "half-dozen editing operations"
scenario out of the water. AFAICS, the _only_ reason for Emacs to conform to CUA
would be to have a better fit with the outside world. For me, that is not a
sufficient reason.





  reply	other threads:[~2010-03-26 21:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 48+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <87sk7pzqsp.fsf@ambire.localdomain>
2010-03-24 20:20 ` d-s-m default: nil Ulf Jasper
2010-03-24 20:26   ` Deniz Dogan
2010-03-25  0:24 ` d-s-m default: Nil + explanation! (was: d-s-m default) Memnon Anon
2010-03-25  4:22   ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-25  8:24     ` d-s-m default: Nil + explanation! David Kastrup
2010-03-25 13:03       ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-25 13:18         ` David Kastrup
2010-03-25 13:27           ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-25 14:21             ` Davis Herring
2010-03-25 14:42               ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-25 15:04       ` Drew Adams
2010-03-25 16:27       ` Tweaking t-m-m to make room for d-s-m Stefan Monnier
2010-03-25 17:51         ` Alan Mackenzie
2010-03-26  7:04           ` Juri Linkov
2010-03-25 23:56         ` Drew Adams
2010-03-26  2:36           ` Stefan Monnier
2010-03-26  8:28         ` mathias
2010-03-26 17:53           ` Drew Adams
2010-03-26 20:18             ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-26 21:18               ` Drew Adams [this message]
2010-03-26 21:30                 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-26 22:05                   ` Christophe Poncy
2010-03-26 22:07                     ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-26 22:23                       ` Drew Adams
2010-03-26 22:33                         ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-26 22:44                           ` Drew Adams
2010-03-26 22:59                             ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-26 23:15                               ` Drew Adams
2010-03-26 22:30                       ` Christophe Poncy
2010-03-26 22:13                   ` Drew Adams
2010-03-26 22:32                     ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-26 23:11                       ` Drew Adams
2010-03-26 23:23                         ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-26 23:35                           ` Drew Adams
2010-03-27 22:49                   ` Richard Stallman
2010-03-27 23:27                     ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-27 23:37                       ` Deniz Dogan
2010-03-27 23:53                         ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-28  0:28                           ` Deniz Dogan
2010-03-29 23:38                       ` Richard Stallman
2010-03-30  0:08                         ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-30  1:16                           ` Christoph
2010-03-30  5:31                           ` Richard Stallman
2010-03-30  6:38                             ` Lennart Borgman
2010-03-30  9:47                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-03-30 18:17                                 ` Chad Brown
2010-03-30 19:19                           ` Lluís
2010-03-25 20:48 ` d-s-m default: t Noah Friedman

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