From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 12:23:02 -0800 Message-ID: <5EB95DB2-9940-4F28-A92C-98B107E39F78@gmail.com> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <87ppbqb6s1.fsf@gnu.org> <87h9x2f9me.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87a92uf8ik.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <8761dif6ib.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87k31xkue1.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87mw6tj8gp.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87sigifh44.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <4B54FE1A-8C4A-43BA-9DA4-5E83419B912C@gmail.com> <87mw6pg0kj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418675020 16191 80.91.229.3 (15 Dec 2014 20:23:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 20:23:40 +0000 (UTC) To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" , emacs Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 15 21:23:33 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y0cB1-0006Cu-FY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 21:23:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41754 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y0cB0-0003Is-WA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:23:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58992) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y0cAj-0003Il-5X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:23:18 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y0cAd-00087t-Hb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:23:13 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pd0-x229.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c02::229]:40113) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y0cAd-00087k-9w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:23:07 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pd0-f169.google.com with SMTP id z10so12434607pdj.0 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 12:23:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=253xlDLkpwBJMbXAcXl3zHBYQdk6tmVMTu0AROVJh8I=; b=CpNznQfgf9D2l0+5KPNdllpFbpSFzhVUxXe0UQltWa/NpuxmBA6ojdWW/x659CVz0H UDvviiMpB2jINPjrYciqQEdc5ty7W3EwvfT5+QXZ4V0q6mtSOWuEudvICWDNWCeyiKBg /b+idGUXsNtE8VnAhZZG+fI47shnZ+wLOg80pNFnTI9JabqdIbHmeEPMQf8sYVXX7uRN YDQRrhxMrdZcWuH4Z10h3uz0zfdmsuQV3ap5kCDr3yAh6hmQ0CYGsH9GyBkMWNCxXQ+q nnV0ZYdFAfLrUd5hchuWRthpscGk7SgUBRhMK4oqmSTiXjvuGbz8v4saDKOwcKvUq5Es XMnA== X-Received: by 10.70.39.101 with SMTP id o5mr13951716pdk.67.1418674986038; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 12:23:06 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [172.16.8.117] (50-194-51-50-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.194.51.50]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id zk9sm1195949pac.1.2014.12.15.12.23.04 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 15 Dec 2014 12:23:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87mw6pg0kj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c02::229 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:180174 Archived-At: > On 14 Dec 2014, at 17:32, Stephen J. Turnbull = wrote: >=20 >=20 >> It would be interesting to see browsers and javascript packages >> adopt a GPL-compatibility declaration, >=20 > Good luck. The people advocating HTML are using IE, Firefox, Chrome, > or Safari (or DFSG variants of the above, where legally feasible), I'd > bet. GPL browsers are minor. I must have been unclear: I=E2=80=99m talking about declarations in the javascript code that is delivered to the browser. That requires absolutely nothing of the browser authors themselves that isnt already long-available - you need the javascript authors to make a GPL-compatible declaration, and then you need a browser extension to tell the user about the declaration. The browser extension is an easy task for people familiar with such. Getting the javascript package/library/framework/whatever authors to agree to the GPL is harder. >> There are practical ways in which users can exert some control over >> client-side javascript today (GreaseMonkey, NoScript, and the like). >=20 > I think that's a much better approach. I really don't care if the > code I'm running is GPL or another FLOSS license or public domain. > After all, the browsers I use most of the time aren't even GPL > themselves. I don't think crackers and phishers will hesitate to > fraudulently present a GPL assertion, either. So what I really want > is a feature that tells me that I haven't run this script before and > asks me if I want to run it. The GPL declarations for, say, gcc, gdb, and (tentatively) emacs all have the same problem. I am assuming that the approaches that are acceptable there could also apply here. Let me try this another way: the theoretical acceptable emacs FFI adds code to emacs that checks for a GPL declaration. The technical hurdles to having a browser plugin that does the same for delivered-to-the-client javascript code are very low; if such a system were desirable, the political hurdles are much harder. I dont know if the idea is useful enough to be worth the effort in general, but it presents a potential way past (what I believe is) a key objection to reliance on what I had called client-side javascript. ~Chad