From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Default behaviour of RET. Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 15:03:10 -0700 Message-ID: <5D2595BD-AC11-4FB6-B363-31EBE28A0AE0@mit.edu> References: > <8361sqli02.fsf@gnu.org>> <1730ebf3-db44-498c-b2a9-4d288d83a946@default> <87k3h6xuen.fsf@yandex.ru> <1878e4fa-50f2-4655-a4ff-30d1db708ee8@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1382393012 1585 80.91.229.3 (21 Oct 2013 22:03:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 22:03:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Dmitry Gutov , acm@muc.de, Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams To: "emacs-devel@gnu.org devel" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 22 00:03:35 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VYNZW-0002Gd-Cb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 00:03:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42019 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYNZV-0006jp-V7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:03:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58334) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYNZN-0006i8-Es for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:03:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYNZG-0008O2-A9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:03:25 -0400 Original-Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu ([18.9.25.12]:49314) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYNZG-0008NW-7I; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:03:18 -0400 X-AuditID: 1209190c-b7fd38e0000009aa-9c-5265a4a5f12b Original-Received: from mailhub-auth-1.mit.edu ( [18.9.21.35]) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 58.39.02474.5A4A5625; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-1.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id r9LM3FuD007059; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:03:16 -0400 Original-Received: from [10.0.1.25] (c-24-17-53-86.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [24.17.53.86]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as yandros@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id r9LM3Bqi014799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:03:13 -0400 X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <1878e4fa-50f2-4655-a4ff-30d1db708ee8@default> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrMKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixCmqrLt0SWqQQec2NYuGl1IWU0+EWVw+ /IrF4uWVo8wWjxc8YbX49msrs8WUJVvZHdg92qaZeax/s5fJY/cBV4+PT2+xeBxu6GcJYI3i sklJzcksSy3St0vgypj89yNLwVbOiu3N25kbGI+zdzFyckgImEi8/XeMCcIWk7hwbz1bFyMX h5DAPkaJI/PWMkM4Gxklll/7DpU5yCTxe8kjVpAWYQE1iZ6mr0A2BwevgJ7E9l9yIGFmAS2J G/9eMoGE2QRkgKZqQCzglZjR/pQFxOYUsJb4deE9WAmLgKrEy8Z4kOnMAqsYJS5PfMsOMUZe YvvbOcwgNq+AlcS5L+ehTjjHKLHs33GwhIiAqcSi3csYIRbISpw+95xlAqPQLISLZiG5aBaS sQsYmVcxyqbkVunmJmbmFKcm6xYnJ+blpRbpGurlZpbopaaUbmIEx4ckzw7GNweVDjEKcDAq 8fBmWKUGCbEmlhVX5h5ilORgUhLlXbYQKMSXlJ9SmZFYnBFfVJqTWnyIUYKDWUmE93sfUI43 JbGyKrUoHyYlzcGiJM57k8M+SEggPbEkNTs1tSC1CCYrw8GhJMFbvRioUbAoNT21Ii0zpwQh zcTBCTKcB2h4L0gNb3FBYm5xZjpE/hSjLsexqZ++MQqx5OXnpUqJ884CKRIAKcoozYObA0tr rxjFgd4S5l0NUsUDTIlwk14BLWECWuLMCLakJBEhJdXAqN8W/3bH2vex9QIsNW16Z87468rJ Z2UoMNRtC4tbZNl76Y3oKT81viuC6f9PP7c7x365a87nHZuq1c+Gd86fsr33YMui X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 18.9.25.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:164438 Archived-At: On 21 Oct 2013, at 13:53, Drew Adams wrote: > > For Emacs, `C-j' has been considered convenient for this behavior > for a very long time. This claim is made with no more support than Eli's counterclaim, and it is stated as if it were a fact. We've already seen multiple claims to the contrary (some because you repeated the question, and some because other people also disagreed with you). The people making those claims attempted to provide support, which you nitpicked (as expected) and then discounted. > Certainly not "much less" convenient. Either we're going to poll the users, or we aren't and instead are going to rely on developer opinion. In both cases, positive statements like "I find it convenient." are valuable. In neither case does it seem valuable or worthwhile to disparage or discount the opinions of other people simply because you disagree. If there's a vote to be made, I have helped hundreds of users (mostly MIT students) who wanted RET to do newline-and-indent by default in programming modes. It's easy enough to change if it's not the default, but I certainly think it's a better default. I hope that helps, ~Chad