From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chad Brown Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Obsoleting end-user-functions Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 08:52:28 -0700 Message-ID: <59FAD0EB-1304-428A-B804-F317B920C068@mit.edu> References: <50365.130.55.132.97.1270318658.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <622A6B6A-AC87-4229-B40D-CCD28A3B5C25@mit.edu> <7BC79A0C-3709-4FD4-A678-0F235B789213@mit.edu> <87r5mupr6l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1270482802 17923 80.91.229.12 (5 Apr 2010 15:53:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 15:53:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Stephen J. Turnbull" , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 05 17:53:21 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nyoc1-0002YN-7W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:53:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41206 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nyoc0-0002IG-Qg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 11:53:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NyobN-000239-OK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 11:52:37 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=54430 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NyobM-00022N-Ey for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 11:52:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NyobK-0005l1-UR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 11:52:36 -0400 Original-Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu ([18.9.25.15]:60213) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NyobK-0005ks-RD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 11:52:34 -0400 X-AuditID: 1209190f-b7b20ae000003f85-1e-4bba074223f6 Original-Received: from mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu (MAILHUB-AUTH-4.MIT.EDU [18.7.62.39]) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (Symantec Brightmail Gateway) with SMTP id 04.3E.16261.2470ABB4; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 11:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id o35FqWgl006550; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 11:52:33 -0400 Original-Received: from [10.0.1.6] (c-98-247-149-76.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [98.247.149.76]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as yandros@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id o35FqSqc001460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 5 Apr 2010 11:52:31 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:123203 Archived-At: On Apr 5, 2010, at 6:48 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> [C]urrently we don't have any good way to obsolete = end-user-functions, >>> since the obsolescence-info is only used by the byte-compiler >> Two easy, non-invasive ideas: >> (1) Have help functions such as describe-function present the o-info >> (and maybe apropos could have a very abbreviated notation) >=20 > Done since Emacs-22. But in my experience most users won't use C-h f = on > a function they already use in their .emacs: that code will just sit > there to rot until it breaks. >=20 >> (2) Provide a help-obsolete (maybe apropos-obsolete is a better = name?) >> function which lists all symbols with o-info in apropos style. >=20 > Even less likely to be used. This seems like a potential place to take advantage of cedet or = cedet-like function marking, in the future. It won't stop people who never look at = their .emacs files, but if editing your .emacs file caused some functions to = be highlighted in some glaring face, and on mouseover/cursor entry caused a popup with `OBSOLETE FUNCTION' across the top and a note/link on=20 what to use instead, you might have a functional mid-point between just accepting the function and having it error/signal. It does seem likely to only catch a small number of users who aren't=20 following emacs closely enough to notice when functions are obsoleted but yet are still changing their .emacs now and then. Just a thought, *Chad=