From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 15:20:51 +0300 Message-ID: <57ca4d78-2339-201d-edce-678c9b003a99@yandex.ru> References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <83tujbqg4j.fsf@gnu.org> <46353190-1190-495f-b15e-22980159b3ab@yandex.ru> <83y28mp0rb.fsf@gnu.org> <51a363db-fde7-791d-cf8d-98ac601d62ee@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25674"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, danflscr@gmail.com, philipk@posteo.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 30 14:21:38 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mKgIE-0006Vt-8H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 14:21:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38640 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mKgID-0001QS-4L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 08:21:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51148) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mKgHa-0000jc-Au for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 08:20:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x334.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::334]:46729) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mKgHY-0003vs-PI; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 08:20:58 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x334.google.com with SMTP id m25-20020a7bcb99000000b002e751bcb5dbso9291350wmi.5; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 05:20:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=g4bgJFPbz7QTBLpZStfC24Z4s4y1JOa9qfSmj1EfbfQ=; b=vUli9b5nFUP2UezOXt0qFZkZhj4QTHen8ljxG03ykgU05JjjbLg/Jzu/LsVR+MXFEE /sFTV8cYikJPbnYDdoGl0zk44VXjt0nbnjrjEH7kntmfiY1zc2H1MU3KcvrXGoZhc3FG iK5vExQTrxNjEoE+RDMriYb3CcLkI1OFxLq4gfLe5TOAJjM2lVbvFn2KFdULqYgB/8sT /jEdrS25H8GtAe6bZzrySmkSvZhCuuy59bOArP1ZIFfeZ3cXCeixRHN4eJWQHr78LWBl bAvresEPWc0fGEQ9KYBID0yxnIMrm4DvLP08AesJu1IbOH3UzJiU7aEfwL+Ci4ruNXq2 tCpw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=g4bgJFPbz7QTBLpZStfC24Z4s4y1JOa9qfSmj1EfbfQ=; b=ldhzkyoTAbYEr6pHxxLvQQW7grpLyWLvvoi8zOBu59md/KSwKwGq+VpsB8HRE2Hx/l q7SH3GA72myrytEwQFbrut5eIeHij8K2mQhavpCGL5G2NqaVHvsHegiZDdwtvBIOV49S +EYj6m22r0WpzJJErD81ZN0X1RH6/ObxX/whfvBG0nTsolwP3Q3JwVsbDpXV3cEBwzyl kPkhwpd8X1dokrQqMd4OXoOz7Dm9RpmO88Ax0niHJqewHj8aeY/6F9WvstSptxIbnXJD xIgkr9HOU9K6xeKCWIwU8Rz2OnoE5t+yZjmnJqwSxzfFwa5HvC+ksqsyGBSGqQZUt1bL lQrg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ImB5aszXMBEhcpszDyRwz+gC2/pixqyensKMMZNx9mUCbqINx Sxa8imBIyXcy8IMl2BfCspQPSPQzPS0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzTIbA+8DWAZ4sBGBPgguWZ+EV9nrL0E1QByVIATRtJd/04ieahNsAoNE/MCfn4spZrrX6O6w== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:3909:: with SMTP id g9mr20994483wma.19.1630326054766; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 05:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id k16sm15629223wrx.87.2021.08.30.05.20.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 30 Aug 2021 05:20:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::334; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x334.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -23 X-Spam_score: -2.4 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.932, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273481 Archived-At: On 30.08.2021 05:58, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > perhaps even an ability to write messages from > > the browser (which is certain to appeal to some newcomers). > > It is fine to offer this feature, provided the message turns into > email so that we can receive it in our inboxes. Is that the case? That's the idea. > > Overall, if we finally accept that neither UI familiarity (for new > > users) nor workflow familiarity (for new contributors) are a priority > > for the Emacs project, this might a reasonable option to migrate to. > > They count for something, but less than many other countervaling values. > This is meaningful at the "all else being equal" level. Yes, as is now apparent from multiple arguments around the subject, appealing to newcomers (and/or trying to adopt contemporary usability practices) is of much lesser priority than, say, making sure that each key binding that has been with us for a number of years, is left unchanged for ever. We hate to risk inconveniencing existing users.