From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Scott Randby Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Differences between Org-Mode and Hyperbole Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 19:02:42 -0400 Message-ID: <5775A512.4020803@gmail.com> References: <87h9cdmj6t.fsf@delle7240.chemeng.ucl.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1467327818 4836 80.91.229.3 (30 Jun 2016 23:03:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:03:38 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 01 01:03:28 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bIkzY-0007sg-4E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2016 01:03:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52966 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bIkzX-0006XJ-9Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2016 19:03:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43233) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bIkyx-0006Wy-J1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2016 19:02:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bIkyr-00052y-Kx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2016 19:02:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-it0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::236]:35203) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bIkyr-00052k-Fw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2016 19:02:45 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-it0-x236.google.com with SMTP id g127so4317189ith.0 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2016 16:02:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FKNU94/HKUMpToKkMHQFZ/PYDEJC617bj0e7n16BiuI=; b=aS/RGKQ9JEb5dMlrCt02zYl6uqjfRThGRuK5cRQf5X6MwteLi0Isw8SXce97IWtlOy jNF1zCkA3ucfGcJ2SkzpDko5je6yi1+hv9dlMgTCCyEWSJY6Ly5bKBYZJzNg1AlfCzai xFCzwYxyMI7whD9tT7snmnpnSa/1HIuWuaGY5T2NLJbPEbIZi2j2CAtK51EAg9tEuzhQ YgVQuo9CrbqDp7zgIwILtJepbQx1X1rt1pRKCwgSb+IEi7J0PC8H6o9DRxns4df0nXaT iUjFYcBs3/mSqfwzkRE5pf77ZHWx0pM51ya8i/ttumh/JgkPcXWnYpoLYowxNBqfPmso yOEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FKNU94/HKUMpToKkMHQFZ/PYDEJC617bj0e7n16BiuI=; b=V+DEOj9jcEDc2iGAFjpUXky+uj+8O49Z+LXk/jvfuTbkAPesSApBxpueEu3b+dco6F Oj8K42oA0LnLUqfsc//NFst9lO0oy6mIhuhm8toc5AzYX10IfBf22fCUYbsBz7x3+BtY jXiSeXIxZQp3plMtLmDd+UhV/dRJWE6pAlBdufzJivihFzpLqqMe2OsAVLGHaKPa1k4s rfRnHelkaBen635R4YBNqEmwq4boApfcqKVQeDglJPz60iZ78ciUyPsNvgaKD/Xwo/8p ftcdS9fp54hEucKIqtFX7PfUl0kCCS4HnJ7Q/wGPBnGOtWOhLYiWW0DqWJy+Riiq2agx Xlzw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tIfKLYF2d4OTCHMukKZ/7GQrUCDhmlwVkYvP4mqm4AGIL7T984kWdNZOID/vSpBzQ== X-Received: by 10.36.228.133 with SMTP id o127mr17559454ith.9.1467327764175; Thu, 30 Jun 2016 16:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.103] (cpe-184-56-99-2.neo.res.rr.com. [184.56.99.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m203sm4896200iom.21.2016.06.30.16.02.43 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Jun 2016 16:02:43 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.8.0 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:205012 Archived-At: On 06/30/2016 01:58 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > This seems to be a major part of your issue with Org mode. Could you > > explain in some detail what you mean specifically by having to learn > > basic Org mode before seeing what its features are? > > I don't remember -- it was years ago that I took a look at it > and gave up. I don't have time to revisit it now. > It is hard to take this criticism of Org seriously when it comes from the uninformed position of not knowing how to use either old or recent versions of it. Org has its flaws, but the the alleged failure of various unspecified pieces to work outside of Org isn't one of them. Org originated as a project outside of Emacs and it wasn't an official part of Emacs until recent years. It is natural that its elements are meant to work in Org. If an element happens to work outside of Org, that is just a lucky circumstance. If there is a desire to use Org elements outside of Org, then please write the code to do that, or fork Org, or start a new project. Org is free software after all. The Org community is very open to suggestions for improvement. If anyone has specific suggestions for improvements to Org, instead of vague pronouncements about alleged failures, then please send them to the Org mailing list. I started using Org long before it was an official part of Emacs, and it appears to me that perhaps incorporating Org into official Emacs was the failure, not the inability of some of its components to work outside of Org. Scott Randby