From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <56c8a227-6c1d-4456-8c13-d0c87186c653@default> References: <20201016130235.06218dae@argon> <20201016142436.187b8210@argon> <20201016152523.6fdfef65@argon> <6142a27f-c53b-35bf-1038-5f047395e868@yandex.ru> <20201016204531.77fab05b@argon> <20201016190846.GI11061@protected.rcdrun.com> <70ea157a-967c-4145-9dc7-1cfc215ad9a0@default> <20201016201547.GP11061@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39344"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Marcel Ventosa , Dmitry Gutov , Richard Stallman , Thibaut Verron , emacs-devel To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 16 23:02:42 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kTWs5-000A7Q-Sc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2130.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/16 17:01:43 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257877 Archived-At: Maybe reread what I wrote. I said essentially what you're saying. Perhaps we don't disagree at all; dunno. But I distinguished the fact that something that is typically not a commodity (it's offered freely, not sold) _can_ be sold, and so might in that instance be said to be a commodity, is nevertheless not generally a commodity. GNU Emacs is not generally a commodity. (It's always a product. Not every product is a commodity, even in what is generally a "market" economy.) If I paint my car red and green stripes it becomes a red-and-green car. But generally cars aren't red and green. ___ "This division of a product into a useful thing and a value becomes practically important, only when exchange has acquired such an extension that useful articles are produced for the purpose of being exchanged, and their character as values has therefore to be taken into account, beforehand, during production." Commodity production: Products are produced with an eye to being sold. Selling and sales value are taken into account during production - they are part of the character of the product, as commodity. This is _production for exchange_. GNU Emacs is, in general, not that. The notes you write to yourself (in Org mode or whatever) are useful to you, and they weren't written with an eye to being sold. If someone sells those notes, say 100 years from now, they _could_ be considered a commodity as a result of that exchange transaction. But that would be useless hair-splitting. The notes weren't written with an eye to being sold (presumably). That wasn't the purpose for which they were produced. https://web.stanford.edu/~davies/Symbsys100-Spring0708/Marx-Commodity-Fetis= hism.pdf