Re: Why does the tutorial talk about C-n/C-p etc?

["Clément Pit--Claudel" <clement.pit@gmail.com>]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3118 bytes --]

Thanks for the detailed answer Eli!

On 03/13/2016 03:03 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: Clément Pit--Claudel <clement.pit@gmail.com>
>> Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 14:41:54 -0400
>>
>> Here are a few things that I struggled with when I started using Emacs (phrased in terms of concepts that I was already familiar with)
>>
>> * Opening and saving a file
>> * Copying (or cutting) and pasting
>> * Undoing, and in particular the notion of undoing an undo
>> * Using C-u as a prefix
>> * Searching (and replacing)
>> * The notion of major and minor modes
>>
>> Interestingly, the tutorial does cover all of this; but it also tried to train me to be efficient at things that I didn't care (like having me jump around the buffer, paging through things with C-v, etc): what I wanted was a five minutes introduction which would:
>>
>> * Give me enough to survive in Emacs with more or less the same productivity as I has in GEdit (which was pretty low)
>> * Teach me a few cool features so that I felt compelled to keep using Emacs
>>
>> Based on this, it would be easy to pick up more stuff along the way.
>>
>> Speaking of cool features, here are a few ones that are very simple to comprehend, but that I find very useful; I think the tutorial could expose them:
>>
>> * C-SPC C-SPC to mark a point
>> * C-u C-SPC to jump to a previously marked point
>> * C-w marking the following word during a search
> 
> I see your point.  But here's the problem:
> 
>  * The tutorial explicitly aims at making you more productive than
>    you'd be in GEdit or Notepad, as high productivity is one of
>    Emacs's string selling points
>  * The set of "cool features" that users would like to be taught is
>    highly variable from one user to another, and their superset is way
>    too large for a tutorial
> 
> The only practical solution to the dilemma is to have multiple
> tutorials.  This is not ideal, either, because many newcomers will not
> know enough to choose the ones they want, but it's a step in the right
> direction (IMO).
> 
> The only problem is to find volunteers who'd actually write such
> tutorials.
> 
>> In addition, I think many people get attracted to Emacs for a particular programming language, so I like the suggestion of the tutorial branching up into various directions after exposing the basics.
> 
> I actually think that a tutorial should demonstrate the common stuff,
> i.e. how the same commands do different things in each major mode.
> For the details that are specific to each mode users should read the
> respective manuals and doc strings, as describing them in a tutorial
> will make that tutorial be very much like the manual ;-)
> 
>> One final idea: maybe the tutorial could showcase more of Emacs' fancy features? Like syntax highlighting, spell checking, image support, indentation, and similar things? Right now it's a plain text buffer in fundamental mode.
> 
> Excellent ideas, but again: we need someone to step forward and
> actually do all that.  Most of us are not good at writing such
> interactive documentation.
> 


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 836 bytes --]