From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 11:10:50 -0800 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <56E0753A.9@cs.ucla.edu> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <64a52598-ad53-498c-993c-67d7827dbdfc@default> <838u1uuuau.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1um2xl.fsf@thinkpad.rath.org> <87fuw090k7.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83y49spuxt.fsf@gnu.org> <87pov4achc.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <83r3fkpb3u.fsf@gnu.org> <8337rzpps8.fsf@gnu.org> <56E06A61.4040508@cs.ucla.edu> <83oaano5n3.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457550695 26299 80.91.229.3 (9 Mar 2016 19:11:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 19:11:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, i.lohmar@gmail.com, johnw@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 09 20:11:24 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1adjVs-0008N9-K0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 20:11:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43596 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adjVr-0005Hq-V8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 14:11:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40238) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adjVb-0005F5-4t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 14:11:00 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adjVZ-0002vJ-Tz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 14:10:59 -0500 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:47707) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adjVU-0002t3-8D; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 14:10:52 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F664160E8D; Wed, 9 Mar 2016 11:10:51 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id iATJXCdOdBfC; Wed, 9 Mar 2016 11:10:50 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92003160F69; Wed, 9 Mar 2016 11:10:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id DCVBd5MTsNMa; Wed, 9 Mar 2016 11:10:50 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 71847160E8D; Wed, 9 Mar 2016 11:10:50 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 In-Reply-To: <83oaano5n3.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201289 Archived-At: > 3. We need a convenient way to both create and access this information. On 03/09/2016 10:41 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Paul Eggert >> >> The coreutils-like approach that I recently proposed should satisfy >> requirements (2) through (7). See: >> >> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-03/msg00391.html > It doesn't satisfy (3). Sure it does. There are lots of ways to look at Git logs, ranging from plain "git log" through VC commands through running "make gen-ChangeLog" and looking at the resulting ChangeLog file. One old-fashioned example: on my 6-year-old desktop it takes 2.3 seconds to generate the entire log of all 125,294 commits to the Emacs repository's main branch, using plain "git log". This generates a 37 MB file that Emacs can easily load and I can quickly search through interactively, or apply 'grep' to, or whatever. It's not a problem. When Emacs was first developed, this sort of approach would have been prohibitively expensive. Nowadays it's no big deal. As for convenient way to create the information, that's trivial: just put it into the commit message. This has long been common practice with Emacs. > it requires the amendments to be > in a form that is tedious to produce and error-prone. It's not that bad, and it's good enough. True, it will discourage minor tidying-up of old entries (reindenting and the like), but that's a good thing. We should be spending our scarce development resources in more important areas.