From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Should we restore manually maintained ChangeLogs Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 10:16:29 -0800 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <56E0687D.1000904@cs.ucla.edu> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <87vb4zb0i4.fsf@gnu.org> <837fheuu6a.fsf@gnu.org> <83twkiteb3.fsf@gnu.org> <83lh5utbxb.fsf@gnu.org> <56DDD02A.20809@cs.ucla.edu> <83fuw2t2ue.fsf@gnu.org> <56DE0F6A.6010207@cs.ucla.edu> <83pov5rmt6.fsf@gnu.org> <56DFD78F.40205@cs.ucla.edu> <83fuvzprh5.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457547467 4585 80.91.229.3 (9 Mar 2016 18:17:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 18:17:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: mthl@gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 09 19:17:37 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1adifv-0001s6-44 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 19:17:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43346 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adifu-0007b6-E9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 13:17:34 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50505) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adif0-0006Fw-B3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 13:16:39 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adiez-0003Rl-FS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 13:16:38 -0500 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:43970) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adiet-0003NJ-Et; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 13:16:31 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565F2160E8D; Wed, 9 Mar 2016 10:16:30 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Su4hQVFaGgyD; Wed, 9 Mar 2016 10:16:29 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F2FC160F68; Wed, 9 Mar 2016 10:16:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id QyagTIloFgcg; Wed, 9 Mar 2016 10:16:29 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 64AC8160E8D; Wed, 9 Mar 2016 10:16:29 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 In-Reply-To: <83fuvzprh5.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201269 Archived-At: On 03/09/2016 08:04 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: johnw@gnu.org, mthl@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> From: Paul Eggert >> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 23:58:07 -0800 >> >>>> My own experience is otherwise. For the kinds of development I do, I rarely see ChangeLog screwups now, whereas I used to see them routinely. >>> With or without git-merge-changelog? >> Without. > Then I understand why your experience is so negative. This appears to be implying that if I had installed git-merge-changelog and configured Git to use it, I would have had a better experience. I don't see how this would be so. As I said, I rarely do merges, so making merges work better wouldn't help me. >>> Please describe the details of your proposal. >> For the more-traditional approach, apply the attached patch to emacs-25, and >> merge it to master. Other branches can pick it up as needed. > Didn't we consider this approach, and decided that having ChangeLog.2 > was better? Yes and no. We came up with Emacs's current approach as a compromise. I would have preferred the approach taken by Guile (no ChangeLogs at all; just use 'git log' or whatever). Second-best would have been Coreutils (ChangeLog files in tarball, mainly to keep ChangeLog-file fans happy; they're not used by people doing active development). The approach currently taken by Emacs is a further compromise, which I think nobody likes.