From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH PING] Honor 'SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH' when generating autoloads. Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:47:09 -0800 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5682B90D.1080009@cs.ucla.edu> References: <87k2ph3mgx.fsf@gnu.org> <83mvtwoktg.fsf@gnu.org> <878u5gkakj.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8pwoesc.fsf@gnu.org> <87two3475d.fsf@gnu.org> <5665D6B9.4030309@cs.ucla.edu> <5665DAA1.2080208@cs.ucla.edu> <83k2o9t6t1.fsf@gnu.org> <56771D52.2070406@cs.ucla.edu> <83fuytp1au.fsf@gnu.org> <568073A4.3010604@cs.ucla.edu> <83ege6fsj1.fsf@gnu.org> <568178B6.4000402@cs.ucla.edu> <837fjyfn58.fsf@gnu.org> <5681F791.40309@cs.ucla.edu> <83y4cde044.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451407661 6251 80.91.229.3 (29 Dec 2015 16:47:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:47:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: p.stephani2@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 29 17:47:34 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aDxQr-0002x1-Ij for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 17:47:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49218 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDxQr-000056-4u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 11:47:33 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35253) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDxQb-0008UQ-Jy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 11:47:18 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDxQa-0006fm-Ku for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 11:47:17 -0500 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:47226) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDxQV-0006ez-L1; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 11:47:11 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D846160D1A; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:47:10 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id DMd7f6FISAJF; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:47:09 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706CF160E92; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:47:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id wiJP7K3-WnfU; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:47:09 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-100-32-155-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CC71160D1A; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:47:09 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.4.0 In-Reply-To: <83y4cde044.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:197094 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: > The string speaks for itself when you display it. It does not. A host name could be =E2=80=98unknown=E2=80=99 or even =E2=80= =98elided=E2=80=99. In theory it could=20 be any string. > It sounds strange that Emacs should "miss the information" about the > system it was built on; that could well sound like a bug to some. It is a feature, not a bug. That is, it is a desirable feature of determi= nistic=20 builds. It is not strange; on the contrary, it is the behavior I expect f= rom=20 other programs that I use. When I run (say) Firefox to browse the web, I = do not=20 want Firefox to tell me the host name of the system that it was built on.= If=20 Firefox did tell me that, it would be a sign of sloppy engineering on the= =20 builder=E2=80=99s part. Any reasonably-competent builder should be able t= o reproduce a=20 build even if the particular host that built it no longer exists. This is= basic=20 software construction. In this sense, the Dec. 25 change that introduced the system build name i= nto the=20 output of report-emacs-bug was a misstep. I am glad that there will event= ually=20 be a build-time option to disable this sort of thing. It is an option I p= lan to use. > It sounds strange to send users to documentation for such a simple issu= e. No matter what we do here, we will need documentation that users can refe= r to on=20 occasion. Even simple approaches like nil-if-unknown require some documen= tation.=20 More-complicated approaches like magic-cookie-if-unknown would require mo= re of it.