From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 00:44:41 +0200 Message-ID: <562EACD9.1030807@yandex.ru> References: <83bnc7tavr.fsf@gnu.org> <5618C92A.3040207@yandex.ru> <83a8rrt9ag.fsf@gnu.org> <5618D376.1080700@yandex.ru> <831td3t62e.fsf@gnu.org> <561A6199.1020901@cumego.com> <561B9D87.70504@yandex.ru> <87vb9wcpw9.fsf@esperi.org.uk> <83eggkwdgh.fsf@gnu.org> <83611ww5uc.fsf@gnu.org> <83si4xbi2m.fsf@gnu.org> <878u6pcs74.fsf@igel.home> <83io5tbcye.fsf@gnu.org> <87bnblnzn7.fsf@wanadoo.es> <562E8E51.40006@yandex.ru> <877fm9nuxv.fsf@wanadoo.es> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445899803 24321 80.91.229.3 (26 Oct 2015 22:50:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 22:50:03 +0000 (UTC) To: =?UTF-8?Q?=c3=93scar_Fuentes?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 26 23:49:58 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZqqaT-00007B-4S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:49:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55704 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZqqaS-0002P3-Ff for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:49:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33945) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZqqVU-0003Bp-B7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:44:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZqqVQ-0004Ab-A6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:44:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-x235.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]:34437) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZqqVQ-0004AS-23 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:44:44 -0400 Original-Received: by wikq8 with SMTP id q8so186169379wik.1 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:44:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ej0rIEQU6i/aGPuLuox4pyGlut7JT99sIqkbMWiw4Is=; b=JVawrR7ZSiArXw5xh2buIYBslxTuZ4CKVfqgPz9jVAiy2dJHVgESWRit1GIr55ukmS LT2kaSvs6gqXZv7MjU48ZwzIGa5+3EU/KiUgTfWVrKwcIhNsJFYC5/CfLxbr7b3a6dYy gBpWXXhY8HeEx/dPl2jf4bQTZRnDgRynC6WAWt4RtYWwsf0Pc/Z/X8BHwVnqMr3k76qO 2vDGIn2CMT8QBcrJ3ud/gy5NzV68s2MP24kxDrPxtjGE4a9R5VaDGyE0HltuhhqDNVCm VuJN9hg+Ys5gg26Bd+tG8FZYLmQa4gv0UtKHitPHNtCdewuI/8oStCFCr5AtYtBK9aRg L9fw== X-Received: by 10.180.218.199 with SMTP id pi7mr24371480wic.75.1445899483441; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([185.105.175.24]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id j3sm11945988wib.13.2015.10.26.15.44.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:44:42 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:42.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/42.0 In-Reply-To: <877fm9nuxv.fsf@wanadoo.es> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c05::235 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:192694 Archived-At: On 10/27/2015 12:09 AM, Óscar Fuentes wrote: >> And the subject of this thread is "IDE". Modern IDEs do know stuff. > > I was addressing the specific sub-topic about TAGS. That subtopic started exactly with complaint that TAGS only allow for "jump to definition". Then someone argued that no, you can store anything what you like in them, we discussed that a bit, and here you've come to repeat the beginning: "For references, TAGS is of little help". > For knowing stuff you need tools which are as sophisticated as the > language they are working with, and there is no medium term solution for > that requirement as far as Emacs core is concerned on the C++ realm, > probably Java as well. There can be some middle ground. From what I've seen of GNU Global (admittedly not too much), it's better for both "find definitions" and "find references" than TAGS. Even in C++ and Java it's not too hard to implement a reasonably accurate parser that will index definitions. Recognizing references accurately is more of a problem (for now we indeed use Grep or similar tools). > There are external Emacs packages that are on > track for solving this problem, and an increasing number of features are > being implemented around those external packages. What Emacs can do is provide a common interface those external packages to hook into. Like progmodes/xref.el, for example. > That makes this > discussion about IDEs on Emacs core to look like idle chatting. It is idle chatting, for the most part. No discussions of the code in Emacs master, no patches, etc.