From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 15:04:50 -0700 Message-ID: <56198B82.1070008@dancol.org> References: <831td9z18h.fsf@gnu.org> <5612E996.7090700@yandex.ru> <83bnc7tavr.fsf@gnu.org> <5618C92A.3040207@yandex.ru> <83a8rrt9ag.fsf@gnu.org> <5618D376.1080700@yandex.ru> <831td3t62e.fsf@gnu.org> <5618E51D.4070800@yandex.ru> <83twpzrp05.fsf@gnu.org> <5618ED93.8000001@yandex.ru> <83lhbbrnn7.fsf@gnu.org> <56191EBE.5050404@yandex.ru> <83612essaw.fsf@gnu.org> <877fmuix68.fsf@isaac.fritz.box> <8337xispn2.fsf@gnu.org> <56195055.6010409@gmx.at> <83r3l2r1nf.fsf@gnu.org> <561981D7.9070104@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2QKLNcuUPJFDneBGsP3FAW1hTd97W36hf" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1444514731 9409 80.91.229.3 (10 Oct 2015 22:05:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 22:05:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , John Wiegley Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 11 00:05:23 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zl2GX-0002Ah-W4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 00:05:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46522 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zl2GX-0003kj-9g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:05:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51434) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zl2GL-0003j2-5a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:05:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zl2GH-0000gi-Vg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:05:09 -0400 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3]:46312) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zl2GH-0000ca-NG; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 18:05:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:Cc:References:To:Subject; bh=U9qujV1q44W9neuG90RSV6Mzu35RhBNPsLbmmd/5LyY=; b=fWektcu372XU2/wG7KHj2cW3YDs9RkxNJRqC44URmNOnzfqOF/1s8pZiLBRQZU5JZfWRN0IbvbwQYnE5dQAh9tgKf0z501+ZrRyawHU0AYbZEa1OijggSJAR7XO05sXmpTW0ksaISBX58wAwbjXR1v+tccVTrXouMjxSe5X2g86Dl6wh5rlHQnbHOoJapfxKtZNbZfquoG+6srG4izrF4Dae7eYaAE3BELkUcZATc46KadLLIWrVQJOsAxGvLfDRxxSdui+GlrE3IIc4M5V2YUFb7MGZ0n8EmIYtfAN4dpx7ZBImWXKfkdLpy5LIGQNf3bneASYT+TFqssANOF+RkQ==; Original-Received: from [216.9.108.44] (helo=[172.16.0.125]) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1Zl2G9-00046n-0X; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 15:04:57 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 In-Reply-To: <561981D7.9070104@yandex.ru> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191180 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --2QKLNcuUPJFDneBGsP3FAW1hTd97W36hf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/10/2015 02:23 PM, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > On 10/10/2015 09:58 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 >> To me, an IDE is not a set of functionalities. It's a coherent >> application that provides an IDE-like look-and-feel, and all the >> related functions already integrated and ready for me to be used. >> That includes window-layout, btw, because configuring Emacs windows >> for IDE-like behavior is an exceedingly complex task, one that's >> impossible without good command of ELisp. Not something I'd offer a >> user whose only wish is to build a project in some language we >> support. >=20 > While I agree that working with windows in Emacs is often more trouble > than it should be, I don't think that offering a fixed layout like ECB > is the answer: it doesn't anticipate the needs of commands like vc-dir,= > and it doesn't solve all problems anyway. >=20 > Rather than that, we should provide more consistent guidelines for > window behavior, like whether a command should use a new window, reuse > an existing one, etc, and try harder not to destroy a layout the user > created. Maybe include a more accessible alternative to winner-mode > (which is a lifesaver, but is more of a kludge than a user-friendly > solution). A pet peeve of mine is pop-to-buffer. I've been tempted on a few occasions to make pop-to-buffer equivalent to display-buffer and use buffer-display customization for all the differences. I'm also a heavy winner user, but I'd appreciate the ability to "dock" certain windows and buffers within them. (I haven't found the dedicated window functionality useful, but _somebody_ must, right?) --2QKLNcuUPJFDneBGsP3FAW1hTd97W36hf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJWGYuCAAoJEN4WImmbpWBlpZkP/0SI6MM9554Va4EYulFTnFcm rkZb1bc80+LCmPzstsQh7SX1NukriD278FC1HH47AVqMRoKzhiwlzH1ebeBU8KDB F7TO/av29C5k1RszFAelDiEnOlxPI3kFWO1Nl9foUpLRSrBOY+oJ2qdIin8Ki0R3 xYOEqIBqvdTp+Q9cDsCbPGag8YkQoY5+e+JAM0k0hljibMOU5zyKdYDNAwDCWkNq 4hlrbF9w7wQr+lJyGuXQG4FITdZqESluRiiy1qz89viOJPxQpq9zNxZL/pVFDV/f D3nqyVgM6LSC2pRXZIA7100RCfHy4tmxNwOJgvKdUjCp/0DViexzzHG0fxxbPLv7 6AMvBPwFcMPWET+ilKjeafs7RmARfnUVSZQMuw/aW3z1jTbYVFoWFXYmlAbfw5zQ wLyBulZCCQj1Gulky1YH6+3aKjmD9nqpEWhsCZgkCHgMdffMwDbd9WFLkYe93Rnd RxSL3ax+AIGUdcKfp1OfGpyVPx8JVvYkPjZTquCRTdDX8loGSDwpG8qg+ypzxHqW VGSx28Rxz9lFg7KkL+A78nYfjb/k5SR1s4EhP4O/hER/qKfyQsummMMo7T+2BkR+ a6fRui+psBeT7PX098RDvh6AR90mWIGvNUVxYbGSLyq+hAzl8e5sVCMS0YZbfba+ vMLDs/EItczsRqbxuChH =/kLx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2QKLNcuUPJFDneBGsP3FAW1hTd97W36hf--