From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 10:00:15 +0000 Message-ID: <560BF60C-2358-47C7-ADDB-5637047B2942@gnu.support> References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17649"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 15 11:02:02 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kp79d-0004KT-NN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 11:02:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58334 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kp79c-0002RG-LC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 05:02:00 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36588) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kp78c-0001fi-KL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 05:00:58 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:41941) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kp78a-0005Nh-8b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 05:00:58 -0500 Original-Received: from [10.127.175.98] ([::ffff:197.157.34.185]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000001E529.000000005FD88935.00003A79; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 03:00:21 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260856 Archived-At: Only small subset of users answered the survey=2E Emacs is used by much lar= ger number of people=2E One can see that survey says that users who did ans= wer the survey are on level higher=2E If you disable the toolbar you are doing it for those who answered the sur= vey, not for those coming to Emacs, larger number of users=2E=20 If I rememberv well survey also shows that large number of users use it si= nce shorter time like one year meaning that larger number of users drop in = the first year=2E Finding that cause and improving there would keep those u= sers=2E On December 15, 2020 5:30:20 AM UTC, Lars Ingebrigtsen = wrote: >In that mega thread about modernising Emacs, there was a lot of talk >about getting more data about how people use Emacs, and then=2E=2E=2E do >something accordingly=2E > >Behold: https://emacssurvey=2Eorg/2020/ > >So here's the first thread about actionable takeaways from the survey=2E >(Consider all arguments about the survey not being representative as >having been made already=2E) > >Of 7=2E3K respondents, 5K disable toolbars, which is more than two >thirds=2E So perhaps toolbars should default to off? I know toolbars >were all the rage in the 90s, but that's apparently not the case now=2E > >Opinions? Jean