From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master db828f6: Don't rely on defaults in decoding UTF-8 encoded Lisp files Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:01:04 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5606C140.6090309@cs.ucla.edu> References: <20150921165211.20434.28114@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <83fv27mt7r.fsf@gnu.org> <83wpvfix7i.fsf@gnu.org> <83fv23hr0z.fsf@gnu.org> <5605CB6B.4000102@cs.ucla.edu> <83twqhhf0g.fsf@gnu.org> <5606AC48.7090801@cs.ucla.edu> <83zj09fbzp.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1443283292 16460 80.91.229.3 (26 Sep 2015 16:01:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 26 18:01:23 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zfrua-0000H2-7J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2015 18:01:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54317 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZfruZ-0001EG-Gr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2015 12:01:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45768) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZfruS-00015J-Dh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2015 12:01:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZfruR-0004F0-N5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2015 12:01:12 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:43032) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZfruN-0004AX-W2; Sat, 26 Sep 2015 12:01:08 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 500FC161171; Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id zFvhxh-51ECg; Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 975811611DC; Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:01:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 93UJaTeGWBfG; Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-100-32-155-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5CDCC161171; Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:01:05 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 In-Reply-To: <83zj09fbzp.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190362 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: > So you are, in effect, saying that it is incorrect to derive the > default encodings from the locale's codeset? Yes, for Emacs developers. And come to think of it, for most Emacs users. Nowadays in my experience most non-ASCII text files use UTF-8, regardless of locale. The old days of having to guess encoding from the locale are passing away. This is partly due to UTF-8 being the encoding of choice for HTML and XML, where UTF-8 overtook the older 8-bit encodings in 2008 and now is by far the dominant encoding. One way to accommodate the new reality would be to change Emacs so that by default the system locale does not affect Emacs's guess of a file's encoding if the file's initial sample is valid UTF-8. Users could set a variable to re-enable the old behavior. If we did this, we wouldn't have the error-prone process if sprinkling 'coding: utf-8' cookies all over the place.