From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 18:10:33 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <55DA6F09.2060809@cs.ucla.edu> References: <20150816160149.9416.80132@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <55D1043C.3030909@yandex.ru> <55D15899.2070105@cs.ucla.edu> <55D1C9CE.2060407@yandex.ru> <55D20EDF.5070906@cs.ucla.edu> <55D223CA.4080109@yandex.ru> <55D22A1F.8040508@cs.ucla.edu> <55D22CF4.9030608@yandex.ru> <55D2747D.10809@cs.ucla.edu> <55D317A9.6000805@yandex.ru> <55D42210.9070703@cs.ucla.edu> <55D48503.3020406@yandex.ru> <55D50159.2030104@cs.ucla.edu> <55D62B31.3010100@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1440426804 31060 80.91.229.3 (24 Aug 2015 14:33:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:33:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 24 16:33:10 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZTso9-0005xO-NA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:33:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48658 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZTso8-0003AT-W5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 10:33:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37725) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZTgHY-0000GE-Dw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:10:41 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZTgHU-0001wf-CN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:10:40 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:49705) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZTgHT-0001wN-TL; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:10:36 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDBA7160EF8; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 18:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id NgzzWD3J40lE; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 18:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA01B160EF7; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 18:10:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id N4PncGChjoYu; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 18:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-100-32-155-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C0523160ED2; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 18:10:33 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:189098 Archived-At: Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > Here's what's implemented in master now (either works): > > > (format "=E2=80=98add-to-list=E2=80=99 can't use var =E2=80=98%= s=E2=80=99; use =E2=80=98push=E2=80=99 or =E2=80=98cl-pushnew=E2=80=99" s= ym) > > That's not a feature -- it is just a way you can use the old 'format' > function. The feature has been removed in master due to compatibility concerns, so = this=20 part of the discussion is moot now. However, the idea was that =E2=80=98= format=E2=80=99=20 requoted as per user preference, so that the resulting string would look = like this: "`add-to-list' can't use var `foo'; use `push' or `cl-pushnew'" if SYM was "foo" and the user preferred the grave quoting style. I'm working on a patch to do this sort of requoting in a separate new fun= ction,=20 which should resolve the compatibility concerns. > > (format "%q can't use var %qs; use %qs or %qs" "add-to-list" sy= m "push" > > "cl-pushnew") > > what is the difference between %q and %qs? Sorry, the first %q was a typo; it should have been %qs. > > Digraphs were proposed, but not implemented: > > > (format "% can't use var %<%s%>; use % or > > %" sym) > > That seems much cleaner, since it does not require moving fixed parts > of the message out of the format string. > > Does anyone have an objection to this feature? Yes, it's ugly and hard to read and maintain. It's reminsicent of the tr= igraphs=20 of ANSI C (and it's being introduced for the same reasons!) and in the lo= ng run=20 it would suffer the same fate as trigraphs. It's simpler when one can cut and paste text from text files into Lisp st= rings=20 and vice versa, and have it just work. Requiring escapes like %< and %> = would=20 work against this simplicity. Obviously we can't always cut and paste ar= bitrary=20 text, but we should be able to do so with single quotes without having to= resort=20 to a trigraph-like syntax.