From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 23:47:36 +0300 Message-ID: <55D399E8.6090600@yandex.ru> References: <20150816160149.9416.80132@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <55D1043C.3030909@yandex.ru> <20150816225346.GA5367@acm.fritz.box> <55D2C080.2000806@cs.ucla.edu> <87wpwt5619.fsf@gnu.org> <55D36CB5.10803@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1439930878 22329 80.91.229.3 (18 Aug 2015 20:47:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:47:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert , Bastien Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 18 22:47:51 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRnnR-0007Or-Ml for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 22:47:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59518 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRnnQ-0001CP-Rb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:47:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42323) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRnnN-0001CI-5z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:47:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRnnH-0002YM-7g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:47:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-la0-x232.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c03::232]:33446) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRnnG-0002Y4-WC; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:47:39 -0400 Original-Received: by lalv9 with SMTP id v9so107356228lal.0; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:47:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ICmwXQ5kJzOvPXsCVUjZw41E9o7khkr68r9jYVb2u1s=; b=IE5z0OXPgCjtXJi98ar6r3dNSCT7mljz7vUoxjqdvL3XwPJLRfIWJe+FH6F6LxxbMi EzjaCXouiu6WZuVB+IbksBGwwj1RTVJlhadwQxtsZ8hszhhKTxRQ1LsTtAfM14GBlJCH CZhDXbNy/m/vhWm9Tgjkozlhtq3iwZDBT4yfhhv3BSfeWe51U14aac4Kr53HZhpBES0U MiXOO8ZtJyBI4u0PJ1hMu1hFRI/aLIocUEOt2HaIAX/qEJlIw/EoEnYXOyWRnyd2Mpid 8v9K4zszl9Yn2ieSsmAAVnbfrbwxn+s5eypwwcwm1DjAoAknGb619jYavAuNQFJQ91Cr LH2A== X-Received: by 10.112.181.162 with SMTP id dx2mr7878047lbc.75.1439930857766; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.190] ([178.252.127.222]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id le5sm5207515lab.29.2015.08.18.13.47.36 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:47:37 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/40.0 In-Reply-To: <55D36CB5.10803@cs.ucla.edu> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c03::232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:188908 Archived-At: On 08/18/2015 08:34 PM, Paul Eggert wrote: > Most novices don't bother to write bug reports -- they don't even know > how to write bug reports. Bug reports are written by users who are at least a little experienced, sure, but we shouldn't assume that every such user has necessarily become accustomed to Emacs's quirks, and wouldn't call out this problem, if it were a real problem. > But yes, people occasionally gripe about the > use of grave accent to quote, and this can hurt Emacs's reputation among > people who may not know it better. For example, > (2007) says: I sincerely hope the whole effort wasn't kicked off by this Xah Lee's rant. It's pretty shallow. And the author should really "know Emacs better" by now. > "the problem with the GNU is that even today, in 2007, where curly > quotes have been widely available in word processors for over a decade > (and Unicode have been practical and widely available for at least 5 > years...), they are still using plain ASCII hacks. (in general, GNU and > the Open Source morons have like a 5 to 10 years lag in adopting > technology, for reasons that are inadvertently intentional and or simply > incapable)" "morons"... yeah. > And here we are in 2015, with the quote problem still only partly fixed. One would have to define the "problem" first. In 2015, the documentation markup languages (Markdown, Asciidoc, etc) support rich content (images, hyperlinks, document structure), and decoupling markup from presentation (usually through rendering into HTML). Yet here we are, not talking about any big features, and instead discussing using unicode quotes in the markup (which none of the modern markup languages do), because it's "easier" if the markup and presentation are the same. That's a step back, if anything.