From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:34:45 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <55D36CB5.10803@cs.ucla.edu> References: <20150816160149.9416.80132@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <55D1043C.3030909@yandex.ru> <20150816225346.GA5367@acm.fritz.box> <55D2C080.2000806@cs.ucla.edu> <87wpwt5619.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1439919324 29280 80.91.229.3 (18 Aug 2015 17:35:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 17:35:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Bastien Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 18 19:35:14 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRkn3-0002xd-2x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 19:35:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58619 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRkn2-0000zG-Hy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:35:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57502) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRkmm-0000yx-Fr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:34:57 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRkml-0002wx-K5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:34:56 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:50815) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRkme-0002tQ-6p; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:34:48 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B6F160D22; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id l1wK3zIGCuJO; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA065160D77; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:34:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id T2W6ZSw03Op2; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-100-32-155-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CB3EF160D22; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:34:45 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0 In-Reply-To: <87wpwt5619.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:188899 Archived-At: Bastien wrote: > Paul Eggert writes: > >> Format strings are easier to read and use, particularly by novices, if >> characters typically stand for themselves. > > Did we ever receive a complaint from a novice about `...' readability? Most novices don't bother to write bug reports -- they don't even know how to write bug reports. But yes, people occasionally gripe about the use of grave accent to quote, and this can hurt Emacs's reputation among people who may not know it better. For example, (2007) says: "the problem with the GNU is that even today, in 2007, where curly quotes have been widely available in word processors for over a decade (and Unicode have been practical and widely available for at least 5 years...), they are still using plain ASCII hacks. (in general, GNU and the Open Source morons have like a 5 to 10 years lag in adopting technology, for reasons that are inadvertently intentional and or simply incapable)" And here we are in 2015, with the quote problem still only partly fixed.