From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A simple solution to "Upcoming loss of usability ..." Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 15:17:05 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <558C7DE1.4060507@cs.ucla.edu> References: <87egkzg7gb.fsf@gmail.com> <558C2E25.10303@cs.ucla.edu> <558C492E.9000705@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1435270643 28161 80.91.229.3 (25 Jun 2015 22:17:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 22:17:23 +0000 (UTC) To: Dmitry Gutov , Oleh Krehel , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 26 00:17:15 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z8FSM-0007iM-Nc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 00:17:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57611 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z8FSL-0007RX-R5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:17:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60238) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z8FSI-0007RI-LP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:17:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z8FSF-0006vs-DN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:17:10 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:40182) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z8FSF-0006vo-75 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:17:07 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA90B160840; Thu, 25 Jun 2015 15:17:06 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 23Yt7JOgJjE6; Thu, 25 Jun 2015 15:17:06 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23BEA16084E; Thu, 25 Jun 2015 15:17:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id hGcYUawp6liA; Thu, 25 Jun 2015 15:17:06 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-100-32-155-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ED183160820; Thu, 25 Jun 2015 15:17:05 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 In-Reply-To: <558C492E.9000705@yandex.ru> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187536 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov wrote: >> "Press =E2=80=98h=E2=80=99 for complete help; press =E2=80=98?=E2=80=99= repeatedly for a summary" >> "Make =E2=80=98funcall/apply=E2=80=99 form to map SOURCE-ARGLIST to TA= RGET-ARGLIST...." >> "... Example: =E2=80=98(ad-map-arglists '(a &rest args) '(w x y z))=E2= =80=99 will return >> ..." > > We already have a different regexp that will handle those. It's not an > insurmountable problem either way. Perhaps some complex regular expression would work most of the time. We'= d have=20 to see. However, its complexity will make its behavior hard to document,= and it=20 will likely lead to counterintuitive display of source code on occasion. = It's a=20 minor thing to get a color wrong; it's a bigger deal to display the wrong= =20 character. The resulting problems are likely not to be worth the aggrava= tion. >> There's also a UI problem: >> ot would cause action-at-a-distance, because typing an apostrophe in o= ne >> place in the buffer would visually alter a part of the line many >> characters away. > > Just like typing a double-quote will make Emacs consider the rest of th= e buffer > a string literal? Not that big a problem. As I said, action-at-a-distance is not a fatal objection. But yes, that=20 behavior of double-quote is objectionable, and I wish that Emacs didn't d= o it.=20 I hope we don't need to add more glitches like it. > You'd still have to propagate those changes (which a sizable number of = people > expressed dislike for), to all third-party Elisp code out there. Third-party code doesn't need to change. It'll still work reasonably wel= l. >> The main advantage of the proposed approach over the current master is >> that the source code often can still contain grave accent and apostrop= he >> unmodified, even though people reading and editing the source code wil= l >> see curved quotes. To my mind this is more a recipe for confusion tha= n >> anything else -- at least, I wouldn't want to inflict it on Emacs >> newcomers. > > We can keep it disabled by default, if you like. Unlike the > substitute-command-keys approach, font-lock is flexible that way. Sorry, I don't understand this remark. Both approaches allow for default= s, and=20 for behavior to be disabled by default, so neither has an advantage in th= at respect.