From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs. Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 12:50:40 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <55871590.8010406@cs.ucla.edu> References: <20150615142237.GA3517@acm.fritz.box> <87y4jkhqh5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu> <5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu> <87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org> <55826DCC.9040404@cs.ucla.edu> <55850208.3080605@cs.ucla.edu> <5585C279.3030607@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1434916269 14380 80.91.229.3 (21 Jun 2015 19:51:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 19:51:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, stephen@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, tsdh@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 21 21:51:01 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z6lGe-00076f-IS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:51:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37156 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z6lGd-0001te-Vk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 15:50:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58747) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z6lGX-0001tN-Rd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 15:50:54 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z6lGT-0005Uj-P7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 15:50:53 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:60748) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z6lGT-0005UU-J0; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 15:50:49 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C00160821; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 12:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id F5ypQJRXpZOG; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 12:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00DFF160835; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 12:50:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id LfISRpU9bsyD; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 12:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-100-32-155-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C4B4A160821; Sun, 21 Jun 2015 12:50:46 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187349 Archived-At: Richard Stallman wrote: > as long as both forms are used, this means > a tiny complication rather than a tiny simplification The intent is to move to the simpler form, which uses curved quotes unifo= rmly.=20 That will be simpler than what's in master now, and simpler than what's i= n Emacs=20 24.5 where curved quotes are in documentation but grave accents are in *H= elp*=20 buffers and diagnostics. So the idea is to support the traditional form=20 indefinitely to ease transition, but to recommend the simpler form. > To understand Emacs Lisp (beyond the rudiments) one must learn an awful= lot. Comments and strings and doc strings are part of the rudiments. The cour= se I=20 mentioned assumes six months' programming experience. Even people with l= ess=20 experience than that should be able to read and write doc strings. > When we mention a complicated expression in a doc string, we typically > put it on separate lines, for readability. This works if the definition of =E2=80=9Ccomplicated=E2=80=9D includes an= y expression containing=20 ' or `, which requires separate lines that would not be otherwise needed.= And=20 there is a reasonable likelihood of confusing docstrings lacking separate= lines=20 anyway. For example, until I recently fixed it the docstring for=20 =E2=80=98recursive-edit=E2=80=99 contained this: To get out of the recursive edit, a command can throw to `exit' -- for instance `(throw 'exit nil)'. Is one supposed to quasiquote the throw? An expert should know the answe= r right=20 away, but a non-expert is likely to be confused at first. Curved-quote=20 docstrings lessen this sort of confusion.