From: Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA>,
Magnar Sveen <magnars@gmail.com>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: save-excursion and the mark
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:02:23 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <5531AD1F.2000802@dancol.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwviocxlabp.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2393 bytes --]
On 04/15/2015 07:59 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>> That wouldn't solve the problems with save-excursion.
>> You're calling save-excursion a "broken API", but it's in use everywhere -
>
> Yes, the save-point part of it is used everywhere and works well.
> The save-mark part of it was used pretty much nowhere and does not work well.
>
>> it is a staple of emacs lisp - and has been working for years.
>
> Still works. Just ever so slightly differently.
>
>> So yeah, offering an alternative for the 1% of cases where it isn't
>> working as intended would solve the problem. With no breakage.
>
> As mentioned, there was breakage.
>
>> It's not like you'll get a proper error message when it breaks.
>
> I know, just like the previously existing breakage that got fixed by
> this change.
>
>> Are you seriously expecting users of Emacs to storm into emacs-devel in
>> anticipation of their code breaking prior to a release?
>
> There's already been very hot debates about this change, but actual
> examples of broken code have been really hard to come by, so despite the
> heat I've gotten, am getting, and will keep getting, I'll stick to my
> guns for now.
>
>> Or are you talking about rolling back a breaking change after the fact,
>
> That's clearly an option. Doing so after 25.1 is released would be
> highly unlikely, but until 25.1 the change is tentative.
>
>> creating issues for new code relying on new behavior?
>
> Based on what I've seen of existing uses of save-excursion, I'm not
> worried about this.
>
>> It was just the other day that I pointed out a package in Emacs that's
>> from 1999 to a friend. It's not been changed since. I used it as an
>> example of how stable Emacs is, and how it allows for a piece of
>> software to be done. Really done. This new attitude towards breaking
>> changes saddens me in that light.
>
> Every Emacs release introduced incompatible changes. Maybe more so
> under my maintainership, I don't know.
>
> But the only thing that could change my opinion, I think, is more
> evidence that this change breaks a lot of code (and of course, such
> evidence is stronger when found in high-quality code, since I'm more
> willing to break bad code than good code).
FWIW, I agree that breaking strict compatibility in this particular
instance is the right thing to do.
[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 819 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-04-18 1:02 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 61+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-02-23 4:44 save-excursion and the mark Stefan Monnier
2015-02-23 11:34 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-02-23 22:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-02-23 23:14 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-02-24 0:12 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-02-24 8:47 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-02-24 2:31 ` Alexis
2015-02-24 3:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-02-25 1:58 ` Yuri Khan
2015-02-24 15:37 ` Barry Warsaw
2015-02-24 19:27 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-02-24 20:11 ` Barry Warsaw
2015-02-24 20:49 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-02-25 3:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-02-25 3:25 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-02-25 16:31 ` Barry Warsaw
2015-02-25 16:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-02-25 17:17 ` Drew Adams
2015-02-25 18:30 ` Richard Stallman
2015-02-26 13:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-02-27 0:13 ` Richard Stallman
2015-02-27 13:49 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-02-27 23:46 ` Richard Stallman
2015-02-28 18:50 ` martin rudalics
2015-03-02 5:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-02 5:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-02 21:05 ` Richard Stallman
2015-03-03 16:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-04 12:01 ` Richard Stallman
2015-02-24 16:05 ` Andreas Röhler
2015-02-25 2:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-02-25 11:49 ` Andreas Röhler
2015-02-25 12:35 ` Ivan Shmakov
2015-02-25 13:05 ` Andreas Röhler
2015-02-25 14:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-02-25 17:13 ` Andreas Röhler
2015-02-25 9:18 ` Ivan Shmakov
2015-02-25 15:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-06 18:45 ` Magnar Sveen
2015-04-07 21:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-08 1:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 16:08 ` Magnar Sveen
2015-04-14 20:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-15 4:14 ` Magnar Sveen
2015-04-15 12:53 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-15 13:49 ` Magnar Sveen
2015-04-15 14:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-18 1:02 ` Daniel Colascione [this message]
2015-04-15 14:24 ` Richard Stallman
2015-04-15 15:16 ` Phillip Lord
2015-04-19 15:28 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-04-20 2:03 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-20 6:31 ` Andreas Röhler
2015-04-23 10:03 ` Frank Fischer
2015-05-28 17:42 ` Nicolas Richard
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-04-17 18:53 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2015-04-18 4:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-18 12:30 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-04-25 12:45 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2015-04-25 13:23 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2015-04-25 14:19 ` Artur Malabarba
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=5531AD1F.2000802@dancol.org \
--to=dancol@dancol.org \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
--cc=magnars@gmail.com \
--cc=monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).