From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 15:49:32 -0800 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5488DC0C.2070402@cs.ucla.edu> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <87tx19rd1b.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <20141205215138.GF7784@thyrsus.com> <54823617.4000406@cs.ucla.edu> <83k325195l.fsf@gnu.org> <5482D94B.2070102@cs.ucla.edu> <5484FF31.5010808@cs.ucla.edu> <5485FC59.5030700@cs.ucla.edu> <87388p6glt.fsf@engster.org> <871to9lw6g.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <5486A704.6090305@cs.ucla.edu> <87k321jj4e.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <54876F7F.9000607@cs.ucla.edu> <87y4qfj2u9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <54889A57.5060905@cs.ucla.edu> <87vbljb9f4.fsf@wanadoo.es> <54889F6D.6060408@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3w7b83a.fsf@wanadoo.es> <5488C710.3000209@cs.ucla.edu> <871to7ayv9.fsf@wanadoo.es> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418255407 31820 80.91.229.3 (10 Dec 2014 23:50:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 23:50:07 +0000 (UTC) To: =?UTF-8?B?w5NzY2FyIEZ1ZW50ZXM=?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 11 00:50:00 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xyr15-0000tL-MJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 00:49:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48470 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xyr15-0006Qb-58 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:49:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59530) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xyr0v-0006QD-Sf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:49:57 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xyr0o-00018D-7e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:49:49 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.62]:41205) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xyr0n-00017z-Vd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:49:42 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34752A600BE; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 15:49:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smtp.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mpYozKtD0aJF; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 15:49:32 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-71-177-17-123.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.177.17.123]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6EB91A600A6; Wed, 10 Dec 2014 15:49:32 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 In-Reply-To: <871to7ayv9.fsf@wanadoo.es> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.62 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179715 Archived-At: =C3=93scar Fuentes wrote: > Some formats (like Org) are "final", in the sense that the source text > (the equivalent of *.texi) is intended for consumption (it is the *.inf= o > too, although not as pretty as some of its other representations such a= s > HTML.) Failures on the structure are visible, links can be checked righ= t > away, etc. This is an advantage of Org mode over Texinfo. > 3. checking the resulting document in terms of clarity, completeness, > style, etc. *must* be done by someone who is not the author. It's certainly better to have a non-author also check appearance and styl= e. But=20 this doesn't affect the point that it's better when the author can check = these=20 things easily too, right away when writing the change. Right now, though= ,=20 Texinfo 5 is making it unnecessarily hard for Emacs documentation authors= to=20 check their work. Besides, we need to be realistic: we don't have an army of documentation=20 developers and we're unlikely to gain one while our doc tools are more aw= kward=20 than they need to be. If we stick with our current development process t= his=20 problem will likely just fester. Would it be reasonable to pick one part of the Emacs manual --=20 doc/misc/org.texi, say -- and convert it to Org mode? The idea is to see= how=20 well Org mode would work for representing all of the Emacs documentation,= and=20 perhaps we can convert it one manual at a time rather than trying to do i= t all=20 at once.