From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:49:11 -0700 Message-ID: <541A0FE7.2000803@dancol.org> References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <87sijqxzr2.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="RL3rDChagPL7NHdxjJoimjjgg7HtPh02R" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1410994183 6865 80.91.229.3 (17 Sep 2014 22:49:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 22:49:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Phillip Lord , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 18 00:49:36 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XUO2X-0003AS-Uu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:49:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47582 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUO2X-00083e-Dd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 18:49:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38386) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUO2T-00083T-H7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 18:49:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUO2S-0005p3-3m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 18:49:29 -0400 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3]:59303) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUO2R-0005nL-PP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 18:49:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:CC:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=nZrJz34sYv/qa2hwtqSCl1hTPz4zbDP1hZXiyCgWAgg=; b=Y9xQV5kDnr3o7Pe+tmdFzYGCUDDdc8vtVDkrnjnehU7X4tpDGMphU3ZWQ8+e3lPgnyWU33zPVMonqcOvfHRx7Az/jOSKMSOcWv+5fx2pHo+jT5jPJLZDGBi99XJ9cSyLNEeaqUWqTIVjpzsFXU1leewPEj1X8kflzViOuHu0TSlOd4L7eYuC9u5khm421VpuT/jws/qlWFRz3iIqhpzJYw0alUWc/csMrmt1qIRc1ESjtWWAoGq01bFymbv+sHYQKQIZNOf5GftC/KIdqy6bMHBRCMY50oMgtPtd5iQt6l2sX69YZ51pjdpeGWB2LtO9P+Je+YtjWCqqnYvWrgPGkA==; Original-Received: from [2620:10d:c083:1003:863a:4bff:fec8:e538] by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_RC2) (envelope-from ) id 1XUO2H-0004lq-L6; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:49:17 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 In-Reply-To: <87sijqxzr2.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:174471 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --RL3rDChagPL7NHdxjJoimjjgg7HtPh02R Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 09/17/2014 04:17 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > Stefan Monnier writes: >> First, of course we can keep on evolving Elisp on its own. This has >> worked OK for the last 30 years, so it's not such a terrible choice. >> The main problems I see with that: >> - Elisp is slow and as CPUs aren't getting faster, its slowness makes = itself >> noticed more often. >=20 > I've been going through some 10 year old elisp of mine recently. The > thing that surprises me is how many times I mention performance in it. = I > rarely worry about this these days. Elisp performance as is seems rarel= y > an issue. >=20 > Where I would say that there is an issue is that too much of Emacs is > written in C. Having a faster elisp would allow moving more into lisp > and thus having more of Emacs extensible dynamically. >=20 >> - Lack of some features, most notably FFI and concurrency. >> - Lack of manpower. >=20 > I'd add a fourth. People who want to extend Emacs for their own purpose= s > have to learn it. Having JS extensibility would be an enourmous win. =2E..until the next fad comes along, at which point JS becomes a liability. Popular environments come and go. JS is hip now; Lua, Python, Ruby, and lots of other languages see interest rise and fall according to fashion, taste, and the Hacker News ranking algorithm. Who knows which languages will be popular in a few years? Emacs Lisp has been here and has kept almost complete source compatibility for decades and has been completely immune to these fads. Let's maintain this tradition. --RL3rDChagPL7NHdxjJoimjjgg7HtPh02R Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJUGg/nAAoJEN4WImmbpWBlj3QQAKRk9/d4Ub6Z2r5GPCht3Yml /p4OR005lt5C1pyP9tkSQoa+N9Q3WFN2HQYHx70vOC4BJZmp6gpLzJPtYnpVz8S1 su3bZfYO0pWpO7Op7Ud/NMTxUo/6WAQw5Z18/zl7Ug/1UwWOlG4aJI8ZqkuEfGm4 nFNiquhwrrQGyk2id+GZsFjjt93sZz+WbvOZqcezTIGfe4QK2n0TimEUGjT8AKjH z11Y0rhPu+IlpjqXaPrzTWD6LTzCoo45VDzYcWr4F9kUg8/1TQzk9wlVSdP09HUr BWpIW/rwvkz14rBdtO5frqwm5EpQeP11lRojPqHtLXUUGn+T9ywJpkToMl215rul ppMknIbF5KNQXObtb5y6ZHP5WAkmXAMp/X2RdgxZdkTU/wA+o3yNw7fZ+RhK4PWn 7xuYHYXrQThiUgxSl6tL8u6moEBZJf6e7SbEc24/ZtkPOr8bVMXfmV08LO7hfKP3 T4rGOzkOM9PVFiF8TYozidRnnr57d4on5Ieu6vb438LEZKgIrXtoN7K4jwpnZrOD GhfzrWBaBLaqnnV39shUYYRnSAP//Zk5l8Rs69urrfTcGem98tYgqBv+Dmp1c9tF wjs683Y8CI2gVL38iKjLtf5tB7WfY58ORurKiCAOeiQokhMPqQAZ564uVsEGehkF Lhqr6v+e1tIv1F4fj3cu =bl8S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --RL3rDChagPL7NHdxjJoimjjgg7HtPh02R--