From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Time to drop the pre-dump phase in the build? Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:05:49 -0800 Message-ID: <52D08ADD.5000502@dancol.org> References: <20140110191530.5772E38019B@snark.thyrsus.com> <52D071EC.4090607@dancol.org> <87bnzjigvc.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389398755 21434 80.91.229.3 (11 Jan 2014 00:05:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 00:05:55 +0000 (UTC) To: David Kastrup , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 11 01:06:03 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W1m5S-0004D0-7K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 01:06:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59557 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1m5R-0001sk-P1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:06:01 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48487) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1m5N-0001sU-MA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:05:58 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1m5M-0003fh-N4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:05:57 -0500 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3]:42793) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1m5M-0003fX-9j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:05:56 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=axEWAkcBidJmWlNkUBPT7RDwmgXV0/j/HydmcoK6X/E=; b=T5RYui1xdXnpHwLnxuWo1gFVzxA6cPMzfEPsDB1NGQQzxe8Xr1VGNSi8pYYusADrAVaIC5y7WNeTGK+jGUNgQH4DSQui6PF2a3KzE9g7xRHVmwiRAIC9Vv/hbhiUfm71LW0SRLf6JO2M+CZCEkG1fsXaMiBnuj4hhkYM9xcXIefmSXQy+cAPvi/TL5CHedslQ7UoerAbNEQFCx64OiIMB4919/QxPHImO500C+pOyu5pSPyyXMqjt3opkoUeiSWzEybY3nHY5wZFpVNO0RhTmdEGSXj56mkqzpprT7or8spnOewfXTSdXA6NyPKbriZySnVvL38bgdm6UcmKvLaq2A==; Original-Received: from [2620:0:1cfe:2d:2b5:6dff:fe02:e7be] by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_CAMELLIA_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1W1m5L-00013k-Mp; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:05:55 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 In-Reply-To: <87bnzjigvc.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:168054 Archived-At: On 01/10/2014 02:58 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > Daniel Colascione writes: > >> On 01/10/2014 11:15 AM, Eric S. Raymond wrote: >> >>> (4) We're presently buying some startup speed at the cost of a larger >>> minimum working set. >> >> The minimum working set is zero. Modern operating systems demand-page >> necessary information. > > That's a popular misconception. The key point to note is "page" in > demand-paging. Unless one uses a garbage collection and topological > sort and compaction of the memory, most of the stuff that will get paged > in along with required data will not get accessed because it is > unrelated. Now a temacs dump has not seen much action with regard to > fragmentation, but still the normal Lisp programming styles allocate and > release enough transient memory that the image will be mixed up quite > more than byte-compiled files will be. Of course, if the byte-compiled > files are small, you'll get into block waste as well. ~/edev/trunk/src $ ps -eo pid,rss,cmd | grep '[e]macs' 31132 38516 ./temacs -Q 31136 31312 ./emacs -Q [For emacs] Address Kbytes RSS Dirty Mode Mapping 0000000000827000 11320 10552 8020 rw--- emacs