From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Davis Herring Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Default behaviour of RET. Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 16:13:47 -0600 Organization: XCP-1 Message-ID: <5265A71B.6050501@lanl.gov> References: > <8361sqli02.fsf@gnu.org>> <1730ebf3-db44-498c-b2a9-4d288d83a946@default> <87k3h6xuen.fsf@yandex.ru> <1878e4fa-50f2-4655-a4ff-30d1db708ee8@default> <5D2595BD-AC11-4FB6-B363-31EBE28A0AE0@mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1382393655 8679 80.91.229.3 (21 Oct 2013 22:14:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 22:14:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, "emacs-devel@gnu.org devel" , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Dmitry Gutov , acm@muc.de, Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams To: chad Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 22 00:14:18 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VYNjt-0008Jm-3p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 00:14:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42057 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYNjs-0008FG-L3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:14:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60297) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYNji-0008EJ-SQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:14:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYNja-00037R-MN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:14:06 -0400 Original-Received: from proofpoint5.lanl.gov ([204.121.3.53]:35005) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYNjS-0002z7-3e; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:13:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by mailgate5.lanl.gov (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r9LMDmvo001289; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 16:13:48 -0600 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73AAD1271C85; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 16:13:48 -0600 (MDT) X-NIE-2-Virus-Scanner: amavisd-new at mailrelay1.lanl.gov Original-Received: from [128.165.123.183] (xray-r06.lanl.gov [128.165.123.183]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59AAD1271C81; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 16:13:48 -0600 (MDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110717 Lanikai/3.1.11 In-Reply-To: <5D2595BD-AC11-4FB6-B363-31EBE28A0AE0@mit.edu> X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.10.8794, 1.0.431, 0.0.0000 definitions=2013-10-21_04:2013-10-22, 2013-10-21, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x X-Received-From: 204.121.3.53 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:164440 Archived-At: > If there's a vote to be made, I have helped hundreds of users (mostly > MIT students) who wanted RET to do newline-and-indent by default > in programming modes. It's easy enough to change if it's not the > default, but I certainly think it's a better default. The question of RET's default behavior is not independent of the question of that of C-j. It is manifestly more useful to expose different functionality on different keys. (Even though users can customize one of them away, the defaults have their usual importance when you're not at your home machine/account/whatever.) Is the proposal to make RET and C-j synonymous despite this? In the abstract, it would actually make sense to interchange them: then C-j could just be a self-inserting character. It would even make sense for lisp-interaction-mode's current binding: you rarely would want to eval the preceding sexp and add its value into an enclosing sexp (i.e., where indentation would make a difference). For my own use case, which involves a lot of Python, I like having a non-indenting newline available because it saves having to dedent manually with DEL (or M-\) when I know I want to return to top-level. (This detail is of course not important in {} or () languages, where a trailing ) can be considered or an electric } can dedent for you.) Davis -- This product is sold by volume, not by mass. If it appears too dense or too sparse, it is because mass-energy conversion has occurred during shipping.