From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 05:27:48 +0300 Message-ID: <51a363db-fde7-791d-cf8d-98ac601d62ee@yandex.ru> References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <83tujbqg4j.fsf@gnu.org> <46353190-1190-495f-b15e-22980159b3ab@yandex.ru> <83y28mp0rb.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33426"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 Cc: philipk@posteo.net, danflscr@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 29 04:28:51 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mKAZ1-0008Vj-AQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 29 Aug 2021 04:28:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49826 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mKAYz-0008E3-Ft for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 22:28:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47058) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mKAY9-0006mn-4r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 22:27:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::434]:41681) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mKAY4-00019U-Kv; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 22:27:56 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id u9so16764176wrg.8; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:27:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WyxOhW2gwt6HpUWaOzvl5/vm37GXgSVFNMQwxihBt0k=; b=nHIKiOLSFzcQgrnphLWp9H9CJta3BD9GJ27zw5Ysojxv885imS6+QgBep7loiZrX4m SPnj3GsG5WJjIbNWsSOH2BegXL1lYXHqaDcOzpkHD3f7ICZ0S8L+jHB9jdmK1eiVPJfE 63Kh5YvBjPcuePUYkopAJUIODEbu2Rgtioux2zm31j3UxZuTEP/N0JuJTY7hUEirO8F1 69dL7t6VWYcC+o7WKBC89H99C1v6joaXTGaPilRfT9LOn1fW1d/MnTkIcCgJlfmztdmb of4KoyRp3AhQKAWBhdWwu6pjaSrIYZLzCsnEpDfz9ttBKXWr/+Edx6/4sQuWZ159pGTz xrdA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=WyxOhW2gwt6HpUWaOzvl5/vm37GXgSVFNMQwxihBt0k=; b=N+XLRwu1xwdZu/SIuyfeBTv+xdgeTsnNmTOTP9vW7gqCg15jHDGmOhSwj32bHF29vL cCCPrPi+SOyvB7hvPpY5+sbxQl8SvmTK8pmDj/f4a92eyGKQFy04C4JpNcPGt5Oy3225 sw3FVjw7B1zSUni8v30FiT9W3AZ/OZUkC5TNV9FVNL+FYHKt75DvkKVN1fnnC2W+gQPN KYuSM6fOqhBFMvRjwF1fAPjMJngFlGy1/KO01gRBRRcHtvD/LVHtOEdRNbDlT/p/foPx agd5wrq6awn71HP8LnAanEIfcILLdFl1q5M4lg2FsNJS7gqfAGgVwbKTO4cueFaiZg0L 4RIQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ACHCVvXtEnwjPUohmr3dMz5etvJCENUnefceOl0Anv8DcU8X3 68aZWtcDmeZIYZhGpADDc7FWKQqnUqU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx1rDnnvWA5PIUjka+OHfDHKMogRQ6w4lBHeMExGnEu6iKoLpq6O7nT4dzxAsWeDqn2Glh4VQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:23a:: with SMTP id l26mr18131258wrz.369.1630204070718; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id m12sm10855592wrq.29.2021.08.28.19.27.49 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:27:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83y28mp0rb.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::434; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x434.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.248, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.437, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273360 Archived-At: On 28.08.2021 09:00, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: Daniel Fleischer , philipk@posteo.net, >> emacs-devel@gnu.org >> From: Dmitry Gutov >> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 00:09:41 +0300 >> >> From what I have seen of it, it's email-first, and far from "full and >> convenient support for ... web". >> >> For example, those quality-of-life features that Gitlab has in the >> browser which I previously figured would be difficult to translate to >> email (the code review workflow, with inline comments and updates from >> the branch; automatically updated CI indicators and links to builds; >> editing of messages) are predictably absent. > > That sounds worrisome. > > Can you tell how did you see what SourceHut offers in this department, > so others (myself included) could have a look? I cannot find any > documentation of the features. I used my web browser, mostly following the links others submitted in this discussion (and then followed some links from there), also did some educated guessing (and turned out to be wrong on the subject of CI indicators and links to builds). The video Drew posted yesterday (see the response to it I sent just now) has also been illuminating. I haven't looked too deeply or tried to work with it personally, so my impressions are of course superficial and biased. Perhaps somebody wants to create a test project on sr.ht and invite a bunch of us to collaborate? Or set up a private installation like emba.gnu.org, with the same end goal. >> Of course, it should still be a significant step forward compared to the >> current situation. > > Can you elaborate why you think so, given the lack of the above > features? It seems to provide a nicer/better bug tracker and mailing list archive viewers than the ones we already have. With unified views, better searching, tagging and perhaps even an ability to write messages from the browser (which is certain to appeal to some newcomers). Maybe also features like subscribe/unsubscribe to a discussion, though that looks less certain. We have generally routed around those problems (by doing extra manual work, usually; or asking others to do it), but that haven't made them go away. E.g. recall at the beginning of this thread you suggested the author would do a search for the previous thread on the subject and then find the gitlab issue there. I'm guessing it was, at least in part, due to the search on lists.gnu.org being not that great. Of course, whether this promise will hold up (with good performance and few bugs) remain to be seen, but Drew has a good track record. Overall, if we finally accept that neither UI familiarity (for new users) nor workflow familiarity (for new contributors) are a priority for the Emacs project, this might a reasonable option to migrate to. I just wonder whether we'd have to do another migration in 5-10 years, with the natural change in Emacs contributor base.