From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Andreas_R=F6hler?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A proposal (ox-html.el/ox-odt.el) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:18:38 +0100 Message-ID: <5140365E.2070905@online.de> References: <87ober717z.fsf@gmail.com> <87mwu9iwcp.fsf@gmail.com> <87mwu9fiu0.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <878v5tyw4c.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <87ppz4r1pu.fsf@riseup.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1363162682 15363 80.91.229.3 (13 Mar 2013 08:18:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 08:18:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Thomas S. Dye" To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 13 09:18:27 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UFgtH-0006wq-15 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:18:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56120 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UFgsu-00027N-Ii for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 04:18:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38083) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UFgsn-00027F-Ra for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 04:18:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UFgsf-0006f3-Ta for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 04:17:57 -0400 Original-Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.9]:58820) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UFgsf-0006el-KH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 04:17:49 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.178.21] (brln-4dbc74b1.pool.mediaWays.net [77.188.116.177]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M5E9j-1Ug0V30WtD-00zX0x; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:17:46 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:hicfhxm144KTSgFf4tcbXYzswIp8LTtoGBIC7qOP27a uTocZXJ1kkTp7rfPjbILvcvdyAvQItnumOjpYLo5a/SxhvIOt4 7lg/+W66vUZgP1V7rSqGTryVXoJWg96DQevCCQa8P4cDqySfDC 7rVK+n1zuMLPEDJamByJsHEAFImUVU+oWPzMUIwFwbRzJ1qq3V UnBhBqgA2HIBV5Jff235qhLaKu5ug/XfnH6VJp+VNQY7gNNicB ZTGD902TTfFCr7JEuv2Re3eZIQc4Ttu88elHca8lgLny2/ATYr GfM6oOb+oYhTDDVpLc84fiOmnTSY+O/ZwLTOwJu5UAP8/16Yxk 4pOQAY47hYauRTQfdUUCycoE1+pmK9EUPKO4hi7OK X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 212.227.17.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:157815 Archived-At: Am 12.03.2013 19:38, schrieb Thomas S. Dye: > > > Aloha all, > > wgreenhouse-sGOZH3hwPm2sTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org (W. Greenhouse) > writes: > >> Jambunathan, >> >> Jambunathan K writes: >> >>> People are disregarding my "moral rights" over my work and pushing me in >>> a corner to act a certain way to serve their own interests. This I feel >>> is plain wrong and an act of snatching or appropriation. >>> >>> Jambunathan K. >> >> Moral right and copyright are unrelated concepts. In the jurisdictions >> that recognize "author's moral right" or "droit moral" (much of the EU >> and other civil-code countries), such right is non-assignable and would >> not even be affected by the FSF papers. However, in the jurisdictions >> where copyright is assignable, it has nothing to do with author's moral >> right. >> >> If we're going to discuss "moral right" in the less legalistic and more >> broad sense of your rights in an ethical society as a person with >> agency, I think you're disregarding the rights of prior contributors to >> the ox-html program, of which you were but one of many. Those >> contributors did intend the code to become part of Emacs, and, morally >> as well as legally, you entered into an agreement to further that aim >> when you decided to work on it. If you really do intend to take your >> ball and go home, do please call a fork a fork--and also do please >> recognize that you are the one "snatching" or "appropriating" a joint >> work out of your own sense of pique. >> >>> I want to fork ox-html.el and ox-odt.el (as it stands today in Org repo) >>> to GNU ELPA repo. I request that Emacs maintainers recognize the GNU >>> ELPA version (maintained by me) as the authoritative official versions >>> of these files that gets bundled with SUMO Emacs. >> >> ... >> >>> >>> Jambunathan >>> +---------------+ >>> | ox-html.el +--- push Emacs maintainer >>> | ox-odt.el | \----- >>> | GNU ELPA | \----- +--------------------+ >>> | | \-->| | >>> +---------------+ | lisp/org/ox-html.el| >>> ^ Push | lisp/org/ox-odt.el | >>> | | | >>> | +--------------------+ >>> | | Other org files | >>> +------+---------+ /->| | >>> | | /--- | | >>> | Org repo | /---- | | >>> | | /--- +--------------------+ >>> | +-- push >>> | | >>> | | >>> +----------------+ >>> Org maintainer >> >> >> This makes no sense at all. It is needless busywork for the Emacs >> maintainer to integrate code from one particular contributor who is unable >> to cooperate with the maintainer of the project to which he >> contributes. It also unnecessarily inconveniences ordinary Emacs/Org >> users, who would now face a further obstacle to simply using the >> software. They already have to go elsewhere to get contrib/ programs >> or to use the latest version of Org; now you want to make it so that >> even the release version of Org is fractured and schismed. That is >> totally unacceptable. > > If this analysis is correct, then Jambunathan's proposal furthers his > stated purpose "to delay the release [of Org] or cause confusion". > > I am concerned (perhaps out of ignorance) that Jambunathan's ability to > contribute code to Org might be used to the same effect. > > Because I am keen to know that my investment in Org is being suitably > protected, could someone assure me either that my concern is unfounded, > i.e., that code contributed by Jambunathan can be successfully vetted so > that it doesn't delay development or cause confusion, or that > appropriate steps have been taken to ensure that future code > contributions from Jambunathan will not become part of Org? > > All the best, > Tom > Hi Tom, while not being pleased by Jambunathan's behavior already in earlier times, we should not weight words uttered in rage more. Moreover, it might be possible we misunderstood the real message so far. It might be buried in an explanation given later on: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2013-02/msg00743.html