From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: clang/emacs/ecb/semantic Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 10:14:19 -0800 Message-ID: <50BCEBFB.1090004@dancol.org> References: <20940A983D814C6192ABFF2B7A269A88@gmail.com> <87wqx42nag.fsf@yandex.ru> <87ehjcrw70.fsf@engster.org> <87hao816w4.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87hao7ioos.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87zk1yhib2.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <50BAE369.2030503@dancol.org> <50BC0383.30208@dancol.org> <83ehj7rrko.fsf@gnu.org> <874nk3njay.fsf@gnu.org> <838v9frpcq.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigF50886DD01F04ED9DA7A98E9" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1354558518 31718 80.91.229.3 (3 Dec 2012 18:15:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 18:15:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: pjb@informatimago.com, Chong Yidong , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 03 19:15:30 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TfaYE-000452-9y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 19:15:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42766 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TfaY2-00076o-Ed for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 13:15:18 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51863) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TfaXz-00076g-RI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 13:15:16 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TfaXt-0002np-U7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 13:15:15 -0500 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3]:42760) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TfaXn-0002dV-AA; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 13:15:03 -0500 Original-Received: from c-76-22-66-162.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([76.22.66.162] helo=[192.168.1.2]) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TfaXk-0008CC-DT; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 10:15:00 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 In-Reply-To: <838v9frpcq.fsf@gnu.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:155198 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigF50886DD01F04ED9DA7A98E9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 12/3/12 9:56 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Chong Yidong >> Cc: Daniel Colascione , pjb@informatimago.com, rm= s@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 01:21:09 +0800 >> >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >>> More to the point, you seem to say that the line was drawn in the >>> wrong place in this matter. But you never say why it was wrong, in >>> practical terms >> >> The practical terms are in the subject of this thread, i.e. the fact >> that there is no GPL'ed compiler which can provide the parse data need= ed >> by a modern IDE. >=20 > And there wasn't a GPL'ed text editor that supported bidirectional > editing 2 years ago. So what? All it means that no one stepped > forward and did that in a way that was acceptable. It certainly > doesn't mean the FSF should fall for the first opportunity out there, > just because there's no other solution. There was no GPLed text editor supporting bidirectional editing because the work hadn't been done. (Thanks again for doing that work.) The gcc situation is different: multiple parties stepped forward to do the work required to integrate gcc with other tools, and the gcc developers refused to accept it. I don't think there is any technical that would satisfy both the technical requirements of external tools and the political requirements of the gcc developers. Licensing is one thing, but a modular gcc, covered by the GPL, would itself be just as free as today's gcc. (As would an Emacs with an FFI, for that matter.) Technical restrictions are something else. Reducing functionality can *never* serve the cause of software freedom. Free programs should be as technically strong as possible, even if that means they can talk to non-free programs. It's up to developers to produce free software so good that users choose to use free programs together, and crippling free software so that it can't interoperate with *anything*, be it free or non-free, is a "see no evil" approach that's not only a strategic blunder, but an affront to users. --------------enigF50886DD01F04ED9DA7A98E9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAlC86/0ACgkQ17c2LVA10VtaUwCg6uFmFNXBbBK+Eg78TYSJWNtV vuUAoKz1E4i6GUHW69ZqIE0JNgsldHED =xSYv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigF50886DD01F04ED9DA7A98E9--