From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: quimby.gnus.org!not-for-mail From: letters@hotpop.com (Jari Aalto+mail.linux) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Cygwin-mount.el (Was: Re: Using GDB in NTEMACS) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:19:15 +0200 Message-ID: <4rk87dyk.fsf_-_@blue.sea.net> References: <3C6F2F5F.DCBC0805@is.elta.co.il> <5l4rketmyq.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <3C71EC79.7EE4D14C@is.elta.co.il> <5leljhsfuf.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <5lg03xqm84.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <5lbselqjav.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <3C73260B.C9111ECB@is.elta.co.il> <5l3czwqj3m.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <3C73D10E.A08C2504@is.elta.co.il> <5lofijq13j.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <87pu2zlppc.fsf@charter.net> <3C748F5B.6F50B5EF@is.elta.co.il> <874rkbxpar.fsf@charter.net> <3C74E05D.781AD1E0@is.elta.co.il> <5ly9hlo1ue.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <6137-Fri22Feb2002210032+0200-eliz@is.elta.co.il> <200202221937.g1MJbNw31079@rum.cs.yale.edu> <8582-Fri22Feb2002224834+0200-eliz@is.elta.co.il> NNTP-Posting-Host: quimby2.netfonds.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: quimby2.netfonds.no 1014455485 12803 195.204.10.66 (23 Feb 2002 09:11:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@quimby2.netfonds.no NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Feb 2002 09:11:25 GMT Keywords: cygwin,emacs,paths,cygwin-mount,use,windows,users,understand Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby2.netfonds.no with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16eYDE-0003KP-00 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:11:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16eYBG-00030r-00; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 04:09:22 -0500 Original-Received: from kotiposti.reimari.net ([212.63.10.60] helo=reimari.net) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16eY9w-0002bU-00 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 04:08:00 -0500 Original-Received: from poboxes.com (ip10-148.dial.tpo.fi [212.246.177.148]) by reimari.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA17445 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:07:47 +0200 (EET) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Sender-Info: Emacs resources http://tiny-tools.sourceforge.net/ http://poboxes.com/jari.aalto ICQ 'jari-aalto' 82313129 PGP 2.6.x keyid 47141D35 http://www.pgpi.net/ In-Reply-To: <8582-Fri22Feb2002224834+0200-eliz@is.elta.co.il> ("Eli Zaretskii"'s message of "Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:48:34 +0200") Original-Lines: 86 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090006 (Oort Gnus v0.06) Emacs/20.7 (i386-*-nt5.0.2195) (i386-*-nt5.0.2195) X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by reimari.net id LAA17445 Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: quimby.gnus.org gmane.emacs.devel:1449 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:1449 * Fri 2002-02-22 Eli Zaretskii list.emacs-devel * Message-Id: <8582-Fri22Feb2002224834+0200-eliz@is.elta.co.il> | > From: "Stefan Monnier" | > I haven't seen any example where the use of | > cygwin-mount.el introduces any problem (let along subtle ones). |=20 | cygwin-mount.el isn't enough to solve this. |=20 | To support Cygwin-style file names, we need to fix all Emacs | primitives which deal with file names so that they convert them to the | native Windows form. =20 I don't think this is the correct view to the issue.=20 If I understood correct, your premises are that: - If Emacs would include cygwin-mount.el, users expect to be able use FULL cygwin paths EVERYWHERE. I don=E4t think that is a correct view. I don't see in a foreseeable future for anyone starting to use Cygwin style paths in their Lisp code or applications, configurations they've made to Emacs, just because there would be cygwin-mount.el shipped with Emacs. The view is more like Stefan says: - Most of the Win32 Emacs users will eventually install Cygwin - To manage cygwin effectively under Emacs, one needs cygwin-mount.el =20 The requirement of cygwin is natural, because a simple M-x grep, doing diff, running RCS, or any other similar thing cannot be done without cygwin. Emacs and Cygwin go hand in hand in Win32: in fact Emacs is crippled without it, so is XEmacs without Cygwin. Users want to MANAGE cygwin from Emacs. They do not want to "use cygwin paths" in their Emacs configuration. What I mean, is that users that have installed cygwin want to be able to use addresses like: C-x C-f /etc/passwd to configure their Apache, Inetd, Squid, Exim and other nifty stuff that can now be used natively under Windows. Just like you would in Linux. That is the intent of cygwin-mount.el. It makes life easier.=20 To require perfection before anything can be added to Emacs is a sad paths for Emacs. It will not make it more user friendly. By including something that (in lisp level) is not perfect, will improve in time from the user's comments if there is something to fix. Adding cygwin-mount.el would be the best thing happened to any Windows user.=20 | I think before someone embarks on such a journey, we should talk to | Cygwin developers and ask them to solve this on their side, at least | for core development tools for which Emacs provides an interface. This is against all the design decisions and I'm sure you understand why. Cygwin is an Unix emulation, it should not understand DOS style paths at all. How the heck would a pure Unix application understand configuration file that would include dos paths? You can't expect to change 10 000 unix applications to support DOS paths. Cygwin cannpt solve that in their libraries, because the application use the paths, not Cygwin. Emacs is at least now pure windows application, so it understandas DOs paths. But it could be taught to understand cygwin paths and that change is small in the scope where cygwin paths are mainly used. cygwin-mount.el adds that extra, in a simple yet effective way. Jari --=20 http://tiny-tools.sourceforge.net/ Swatch @time http://www.ryanthiessen.com/swatch/resources.htm Convert @time http://www.mir.com.my/iTime/itime.htm _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel